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Never knew HL players were this sad.

I read all of this thread and now I have aids

Quoted from nean

Never knew HL players were this sad.

Not just HL players, many players throughout the course of competitive gamings are the same, there are always a few that miss the idea of competitive gaming.

Quoted from Scissors

[…]

You wanna know what’s pathetic? The fact that you are so butthurt, that you actually bother to write this in every hl thread.

Get over yourself, nerd. Your own hl team lost every single game, and it took you over 3 fucking years to get out of div 4 xdd

haha m8, div1 hl player thinking he is better. Look at yourself first before u call someone a nerd, nerd. Also how did u manage to get into div4? I watched ur game and I think you should reconsider going back to pub

Quoted from Candle

please don’t feed this “frixx” retard

Ya you are right im out anyway,

gl HL

Disclaimer: This post of substantial length is not to be understood as hate towards Joe, but rather as a in depth discussion of sandbagging. I will only illustrate my claim on the case of JoeNufc.

First of all, let me start of by saying that all the hate and disrespect towards UGC(-steel)and HL gets is really not necessary. I understand that UGC steel is of absolutely negligible importance to some of you, but then just stay out of of this thread completely. Just makes you look like a hippocrite saying something is not worth caring about, yet spending time making a completely pointless reply that helps the ‘problem’ even less than the petition probably will.

– Please do not list me other players sandbagging as an excuse, that is of
absolutely no importance regarding this discussion.

– Please don’t call me out on being a whiny bitch, because that seems the way some people on these forums like to go on about arguments. I will not bother replying to comments being of an offending nature.

I see a lot of people saying that the creator of this petition is just scared of playing against better players, and potentially losing their official. As much as I cannot deny this as potentially being true, think about the difference in terms of skill for this case. Joe was in the ETF2L premier division finals last HL season, which suggests that he is an incredibly skilled highlander player, especially seeing as his performance was – from what I’ve seen – not below the average of the team he played for, itsallgood. He has nearly 2 years of competitive TF2 experience, including highlander and 6s.

Compare this to the average steel player. I do not have proper statistics, but from what I have seen in steel, most of the (new) players barely have half a year of competitive TF2 experience, potentially having less TF2 playtime than Joe on his most played class alone. I cannot verify my last claim there, as Joe’s profile is private, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

Now obviously people will come along and say that Joe is not playing his last season main class, demoman. How exactly does this matter though? I’ve seen multiple high level comp players changing class mid season (also in 6s) and not being a major downgrade. I would assume Joe’s deathmatching is better on demoman than on heavy, but gamesense is among the most important things in competitive TF2. Aside that, especially the development of efficient coms is what helps team advance, and I am sure that as a former premier division player Joe does know both gamesense (seeing as heavy is also a combo class like his former main) as well as efficient coms. Especially on a class like heavy gamesense is absolutely crucial in winning encounters, staying alive and therefore giving your team a general advantage that is nearly impossible to new teams to overcome.

Naturally there is always a skill gap in between two players, but take a look at the recent logs of Joe playing with OiaV, and tell me if you feel that gap is fair in this case. I personally do not. As much as playing against better players is part of improving, with such a high skill gap this only causes frustration and disliking towards the sandbagging player. The point of a division is exactly to prevent skill gaps from being to big. At least this is what the common understanding is, but if the representatives of UGC staff or the community disagrees please tell me.

And exactly this skill gap of sandbagging players leads to a lack of trust towards the competitive league that is UGC. Newcomers will get frustrated over the fact that such an incredibly experienced player is playing in a division made for low-end skill highlander players. New steel players trust UGC that they will play against somewhat evenly skilled teams and players, and that the league admins will not just allow some of the best and most experienced HL players in europe to play in the 2nd lowest division.

Most of you should agree that we as a community should give new competitive players a fair, enjoyable experience. TF2 is a fairly unpopular ‘Esport’ as it is, and sandbagging is making it even worse.

Playing up to ~5 divisons below your skill/gamesense level is not going to do any good aside than maybe entertaining the sandbagger on the cost of many others.

In short, excessive sandbagging is hurting our already small competitive community and being a dick about it (like most of the posters in this thread) is only making it worse. If you care about TF2s success as a competitive game, you should not support this behaviour and play in divisions fitting to your skill level and experience.

This is why I understand the person who made the petition, wether he may just be upset or actually have reasonable claims. This type of sandbagging should not be allowed. Lobbies or pubs are here if you want to wreck newcomers, an official league should not be used to do so.

– Doktor

I won’t reply to any responses lacking valid points or being hateful~

So you can’t play with your friends who are newer to comp simply because you used to play in a higher division?

I’ll use myself for an example.

According to you I have sandbagged in UGC all my seasons, (holy shit I played a couple officials at div 1 :OOOOOOOOOO) including this current one, where sure I am playing below my division even though I am off classing because gamesense etc will be better than the newer players. Luckily for Steel I’m on an insignificant class so no petitions for me (I’m deeply hurt by this but then I realised I’m bad anyway) but even if I was on heavy/demoman (Which I’ve played 3 seasons in Steel/Silver when I was actually “good” at tf2) and considered one of the carries on the teams.

Do you know what all the other teams did?

I’ll tell you because clearly the people who made this petition and yourself for complaining about ONE player on a team. This is probably the most insane idea anybody has ever had in the history of TF2 but, what do you do if you focus down the one good player that everybody seems to think is clearly carrying his team through everything and the rest of his team just sit in spawn and compare each others nails?

Because when I played on my old teams, I can sure as hell tell you that there wasn’t any chance of us winning simply because I performed better than everybody, and that this game actually requires teamwork.

OiaV sure are better and have a high chance of winning Steel without much challenge, but this happens EVERY season and it gives all the other teams a challenge and something to work for. NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE A WINNER.

OiaV works better as a team than most of the Steel teams and I am 90% sure that it’s not just down to Joe. Might be due to the fact they scrim teams better than them to improve? But that’s probably a stupid idea as well, you should ALWAYS scrim teams worse than you because then at least you stop your feelings getting hurt when you do lose. :)

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif