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Quoted from frixx

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Ye, I understand. My bad, sorry for that

gl HL

Safe, hopefully I’ll medic against you at some point again

Quoted from quell

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such child

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probably cause joe isnt shit unlike most people who “teach” steel teams :P

rude :(

Quoted from sno

ban mightyme pls

^

Quoted from Doktor

Disclaimer: This post of substantial length is not to be understood as hate towards Joe, but rather as a in depth discussion of sandbagging. I will only illustrate my claim on the case of JoeNufc.

First of all, let me start of by saying that all the hate and disrespect towards UGC(-steel)and HL gets is really not necessary. I understand that UGC steel is of absolutely negligible importance to some of you, but then just stay out of of this thread completely. Just makes you look like a hippocrite saying something is not worth caring about, yet spending time making a completely pointless reply that helps the ‘problem’ even less than the petition probably will.

– Please do not list me other players sandbagging as an excuse, that is of
absolutely no importance regarding this discussion.

– I do not play in UGC steel so I am obviously not butthurt about OiaV potentially wrecking my team.

– Please don’t call me out on being a whiny bitch, because that seems the way some people on these forums like to go on about arguments. I will not bother replying to comments being of an offending nature.

I see a lot of people saying that the creator of this petition is just scared of playing against better players, and potentially losing their official. As much as I cannot deny this as potentially being true, think about the difference in terms of skill for this case. Joe was in the ETF2L premier division finals last HL season, which suggests that he is an incredibly skilled highlander player, especially seeing as his performance was – from what I’ve seen – not below the average of the team he played for, itsallgood. He has nearly 2 years of competitive TF2 experience, including highlander and 6s.

Compare this to the average steel player. I do not have proper statistics, but from what I have seen in steel, most of the (new) players barely have half a year of competitive TF2 experience, potentially having less TF2 playtime than Joe on his most played class alone. I cannot verify my last claim there, as Joe’s profile is private, but please correct me if I’m wrong.

Now obviously people will come along and say that Joe is not playing his last season main class, demoman. How exactly does this matter though? I’ve seen multiple high level comp players changing class mid season (also in 6s) and not being a major downgrade. I would assume Joe’s deathmatching is better on demoman than on heavy, but gamesense is among the most important things in competitive TF2. Aside that, especially the development of efficient coms is what helps team advance, and I am sure that as a former premier division player Joe does know both gamesense (seeing as heavy is also a combo class like his former main) as well as efficient coms. Especially on a class like heavy gamesense is absolutely crucial in winning encounters, staying alive and therefore giving your team a general advantage that is nearly impossible to new teams to overcome.

Naturally there is always a skill gap in between two players, but take a look at the recent logs of Joe playing with OiaV, and tell me if you feel that gap is fair in this case. I personally do not. As much as playing against better players is part of improving, with such a high skill gap this only causes frustration and disliking towards the sandbagging player. The point of a division is exactly to prevent skill gaps from being to big. At least this is what the common understanding is, but if the representatives of UGC staff or the community disagrees please tell me.

And exactly this skill gap of sandbagging players leads to a lack of trust towards the competitive league that is UGC. Newcomers will get frustrated over the fact that such an incredibly experienced player is playing in a division made for low-end skill highlander players. New steel players trust UGC that they will play against somewhat evenly skilled teams and players, and that the league admins will not just allow some of the best and most experienced HL players in europe to play in the 2nd lowest division.

Most of you should agree that we as a community should give new competitive players a fair, enjoyable experience. TF2 is a fairly unpopular ‘Esport’ as it is, and sandbagging is making it even worse.

Playing up to ~5 divisons below your skill/gamesense level is not going to do any good aside than maybe entertaining the sandbagger on the cost of many others.

In short, excessive sandbagging is hurting our already small competitive community and being a dick about it (like most of the posters in this thread) is only making it worse. If you care about TF2s success as a competitive game, you should not support this behaviour and play in divisions fitting to your skill level and experience.

This is why I understand the person who made the petition, wether he may just be upset or actually have reasonable claims. This type of sandbagging should not be allowed. Lobbies or pubs are here if you want to wreck newcomers, an official league should not be used to do so.

– Doktor

I won’t reply to any responses lacking valid points or being hateful~

i’m way too lazy to read this, can someone give me a short summary of this pls

Quoted from Hot

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i’m way too lazy to read this, can someone give me a short summary of this pls

sandbagging is bad, joe is one-man army

nah its cause joe hooked us up with razer
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs40/i/2009/044/3/f/Razer___Unfair_Advantage_by_mixera.jpg

Quoted from Scissors

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He already did himself, with bold text even

i didnt read it. But apparently u did, why that answer instead of giving me a summary??Did u heard about sarcasm?

Some people in here are taking their steel way too seriously. I mean yeah, it annoys you that you’re playing against someone better than you, ok, get better. Problem, solution. Simple enough.

And the man is playing heavy for christ’s sake. If you’re having trouble with a heavy, then sort out your team. “oh but he maincalls” So what? Use your heads, devise gameplan countering theirs, you might end up winning.

It just sucks to see some people taking such a defeatist attitude. I used to get mad at high-level players, but I realized I’m bad and so I should work on it. I’m still bad, but it’s my fault, not everyone else’s.

I won’t even mention the fact that there is an online petition, that people signed with their own names, about a clan in a video game. How did you even come up with such a laughable and meaningless way to protest a UGC team?