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Anti Cheat - What would you improve?
Created 8th March 2010 @ 18:58
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Quoted from AnAkkk
[…]
ESL Wire is easy to use and won’t crash either.
lol wont crash, when we played pwr yesterday night it caused huge problems for 3 of our players. Fisshu crashed due to esl wire, which made him drop for 5mins. Leon’s pc was using 50% processor speed for just esl wire alone and it crashed in the end, even more fps lags included. Mirelin was alttabbed by the programme due to it crashing, this happened in the last 2mins of our game, as we were forced to wait on our medic getting out of spawn did we loose some vital seconds, we mightve won freight as we were standing on the last point, 5 down for pwr, at match end but needed about 1/2 secs more to cap.
nice programme
edit: server side AC client would be nice , no player hassle
Quoted from AnAkkk
[…]
Knowing the amount of bans Aequitas make per week, I can tell that it works fine.
Also, no AntiCheat can detect 100% of cheats at once, but they do eventually get detected one day. It’s exactly the same with an AC team, but can be worse. Some players have been cheating for years on ETF2L too. I guess some of these are the ones who don’t play in ESL, or who reply in this thread that they don’t want an AC program :)
I’m not saying it isn’t efficient or that it doesn’t work, but you can’t solely trust an AC program (as I think some people have said). You need both since the possibility of false negatives/positives is always there (with both ways) and always needs to be checked for.
An anti-cheat program is a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Its a bit like this:
http://xkcd.com/538/
Quoted from Skyride
An anti-cheat program is a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Its a bit like this:
http://xkcd.com/538/
Damn I love xkcd
Quoted from Skyride
An anti-cheat program is a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Its a bit like this:
http://xkcd.com/538/
Not technical? an AC program is like a antivirusprogram, why use it when you can delete suspicious files manually?
thought id chime in on this topic, bit of background first of all about me – i was an admin over at thesgl (cs/css league) for a number of years helping out with both general admin jobs and ac jobs. To begin with sgl started just like etf2l with no anti cheat and just a team of anti cheat admins who would look through demos but it became apparent after 2/3 seasons that an anti cheat program was needed. After the anti cheat was introduced allot of cheaters were detected and banned from the league. From my understanding the anti cheat looks at users background processes and looks for anything suspicious (admins also check logs of this) along with taking screenshots that anyone can view and various other activities that i cant say i understand. Now im not saying the anti cheat on its own was enough as everyone else has stated but it does help a hell of a lot – its very difficult for users to hide background processes.
Personally id like to see an ETF2L AC program – if done properly it does work very well, the best way for ETF2L to do this is probably for the league to ask to use someone elses anti cheat such as SGL or ESL and in the long term look to build their own. Also people complain about anti cheats being laggy or not responding, this is not the case for a vast majority of players and if it does happen for you its a problem on your side not the anti cheats.
Quoted from Skyride
An anti-cheat program is a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Its a bit like this:
http://xkcd.com/538/
Except for that is a non-technical solution to a technical problem…
gj.
Quoted from davesan
its very difficult for users to hide background processes.
I’m not an absolutely amazing programmer or anything, but even I wouldn’t find it particularly hard to whip up a self-made rootkit to hide the process from the system.
In my opinion an ac program is not THE solution. Yeah, it will be useful to scare some newbies cheaters but people who knows how to cheat will continue and will always be one step before the ac program.
Advantages of an Acprogram :
– Scare some cheaters
– Catch cheaters beginners
Disadvantages :
– frustration of honest players ( crash/fps/etc…)
– cheaters pro will pass through the system
For example, you can find here http://www.xraygaming.com/index.php?pageid=screenshots&userid=129951 izi8 http://etf2l.org/forum/user/6874/ xray account right before he was banned for wallhacking. All screenshoots seems fine but I bet he was cheating with xray.
Quoted from octochris
[…]
Except for that is a non-technical solution to a technical problem…
Not really. We have a simple problem, people cheat. You want to find a wqy to stop them cheating in the first place, not catch when they do.
could you not run an anti cheat program through servers on suspected cheaters?
without their knowledge obviously. I mean it would be a good first step deterrent for cheaters.
It wouldn’t be the full measure to find a cheater, but maybe a reliable first step which can rule out common hacks or find them. Then if the player is still suspected demo’s should be submitted. this shouldn’t matter if the ac program found a hack or not. I say this because
1. there are always new hacks.
2. having an anti-cheat program to be the pure extent of catching a cheater imo is wrong and the ac team should have a demo sent to them without the knowledge of the ac program catching the player or not catching the player . Then the team can review the demo, reach a verdict they agree on and then and only then be given the information about the verdict of the ac program so that they may either fortify their decision or use this information to look at the video in a new light.
3. anonymous demo
i think this will help remove any bias towards any player (i am not implying that their is any intentional bias, however it is inevitable when watching a video of someone you know to be either high or low skill and their reputation in the community). Each demo should be taken at face value.
Quoted from Sketch
could you not run an anti cheat program through servers on suspected cheaters?
without their knowledge obviously. I mean it would be a good first step deterrent for cheaters.
hate to inform you sketch, but that doesn’t make any sense :p
you can’t simply execute a process on a client computer via an operation on a tf2 server, you would have to have something to init the operation on the client’s pc anyway, so they would have to know about it (or welcome to the world of trojans, i guess).
Quoted from Skyride
[…]
Not really. We have a simple problem, people cheat. You want to find a wqy to stop them cheating in the first place, not catch when they do.
I meant the xkcd cartoon ;)
Why ppl dont want any AC programs huh?
it just pretty ehh.. interesting
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