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The Loch n load is not a straight Upgrade. While we are Aware it is powerful and it certainly Could have Been banned we decided against it. You still have 1 Pipe Less and your spamabilitY/ area Denial is not as effective since your dont have These pesky rollers.

I kinda agree with hildreth. The pomson will never be allowed, but instead of crying about 1 weapon use this time and try to figure out how to play around that. Pyros can still airblast, the projectiles are not faster then the dh’s…

Quoted from RTC

You do realise that the Pomson’s bolts can’t be deflected, right?

Neither does it penetrate anymore and the projectile is slow as fuck.

I dunno. I just think that the speed of LnL pills reduces skill ceiling for Demo. It becomes less about prediction and more about reaction. The speed that the pills come out, paired with the extra base damage of them, will just result in quicker damage output that good teams will capitalize on immediately. Not to mention that the demo will just flat out be better in 1v1 scenarios because LnL does less self damage, more overall damage and has less chance to miss due to the projectile speed. It is also arguable that your area denial increases, because nobody will want to approach a LnL Demo as they know they’re going to get blasted for 123 damage unless they get far away.

I just think the attitude of “allow it and get on with it” is a poor attitude to have when a majority of players aren’t going to find it fun. Hildreth hits it right on the head really. “Unbanning the Short Circuit and Pompson will sound shit to most.” Shouldn’t this count for anything? Projectile classes will be forced to play in ways not natural to their class, and this will apparently be fine because “it’s a new challenge”.

Essentially you boil it down to running the best weapons at all times, and that’s supposed to be fine because “we’ll learn to deal with it?”. What originally made a class fun will now be frowned upon, and this will apparently have to be accepted just for the sake of get good. You have to draw a line somewhere. It’s not a Moba or CS:GO where we can put our faith in the developer that they will sort it out to how they want it, and in the meantime we’ll blindly follow their judgement.

This would be all well and fine if TF2 weapons were initially made with the competitive scene in mind, but it’s evident they aren’t. And it’s clear that the community acknowledges this due to having a whitelist in the first place. Allowing every weapon actually restricts players choices, and that does not make for a fun competitive format.

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My views above aren’t entirely directed towards LnL/BB. More-so Short Circuit/Pompson/Anything blatantly OP

Make a Mix div2+
Custom whitelist (add X, remove Y)
(Alternatively Pick and Ban system)
Play
Leave feedback

Is it that hard? Someone just make a Mix, unban few Unlocks, everyone must use them (class dependent ofc) and that’s pretty much it, free feedback…

Nvm I am making it in advance

Quoted from DCS

The Loch n load is not a straight Upgrade. While we are Aware it is powerful and it certainly Could have Been banned we decided against it. You still have 1 Pipe Less and your spamabilitY/ area Denial is not as effective since your dont have These pesky rollers.

Even if we accept this as true, it still makes the decisions made regarding currently banned weapons look arbitrary.

I hate to keep arguing in favour of the Reserve Shooter. It’s an awful weapon that punishes people for jumping in a game where half the skill in playing half the classes is finding ways to move through the air. Nevertheless, the idea that it has more impact on the game than the Loch ‘n’ Load or the Beggar’s Bazooka is ridiculous. If we could see the reasoning behind the bans that have been enforced, it might shed some light on the ones that haven’t.

Quoted from Goreston

[…]

Even if we accept this as true, it still makes the decisions made regarding currently banned weapons look arbitrary.

Indeed, there is no reason for beggar’s and LnL to be allowed, and RS and SC to be banned. I lean more towards allow everything, but they all fall into the same category of being controversial. Perhaps it’s not just a coincidence that these weapons which negatively impact demo and soldier are banned, as well as their equally ‘abusable’ weapons being allowed. Conclusion is that demos and soldiers are being taken care of far too much by the whitelist system. Why should everyone have to learn to deal with their shit, and they shouldn’t have to learn to deal with our shit?

I genuinely don’t know, are Short Circuit and Reserve Shooter bugged at the minute? If so, I understand why they’re banned but if not it’s just giving demos and soldiers an easy ride.