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In all seriousness, please elaborate how you could deal with roster issues, kkaltuu.
What happens if you add a bunch of subs right after the seaon starts and due to not there not being a day suitable for both teams you have to play one match with 5 subs (or 3 subs and 2 mercs)? You get dropped instantly, even if you played all other matches without any subs or mercs. How can that be the intended effect of a anti-hijacking rule?

I’m not sure what you think the rules are for, I thought they were supposed to ensure a fair and fun competition, not screw over teams.

Were those teams an issue in terms of fairness? No.
Did you ruin their seasons and the week of the teams who were supposed to play them? Yes.

So why would you blindly enforce an inofficial rule of thumb?
To quote the rule:
“Any decisions made will be at the full discretion of the admin team and all circumstances will be taken into account.”

Apart from that dropping the teams right after the scheduling is absolutely retarded. Whoever did this showed no common sense. There’s no reason not to wait until after the games were played and maybe even sort it out until then.

Also since some many teams are affected by this rule and apparently none of them contacted an admin maybe it’s time for a newspost reminder about this rule? I mean let’s face it, people are lazy bastards and don’t read the rules. Unless of course they all contacted the admins but you chose to drop them anyway ’cause fuck ’em.

Judging by how it was handled I can only conclude that whoever did this is either
-a retard who just blindly follows rules or
-a lazy bastard who can’t be bothered to contact the teams to sort this out or is afraid of the additional workload coming towards him once people learn that the admins might be reasoned with if you got dropped or
-an asshole who simply enjoys screwing people over.

This isn’t a personal opinion, this just what it looks like from the outside. If whoever did this is reading this and thinks they are neither of those three, they should ask themselves what went wrong.

And now you’re just hiding behind a rule of thumb which is obviously set in stone and wait for this all to blow over while hoping the head admins can solve this issue by snapping their fingers. It’s a great strategy, if you wait a few more days you couldn’t get those teams back into the season even if you wanted to, so it’s not your problem anymore.

EDIT: fixed words

I think everyone will agree that the general idea of the rule is sensible.

What I would like to see so it won’t result in drama again:

– Clarify the rule by defining that >50 % (as has been mentioned) new players in an official is too many.
– Warn the leaders in advance that they might get dropped due to too many roster changes so they can justify it.
– Achieve this by contacting the leaders e.g. by writing an email (prewritten text blocks of the warning might even be enough), don’t simply inform them that the team has been dropped by a notice on the match page of the next scheduled match.

I am well aware this league is run by admins using their free time, and I greatly appreciate it. In my opinion, making the rules and the working of the admins clearer would increase overall satisfaction. In most cases, mid-season roster changes are bad for the performance of the team. There are already enough teams dropping as it is. In the end, we are all here to enjoy playing the game in a league and want to only get punished if really need be :)

The rule is under revision and the wording will be changed, not the content though.
The rule has its purpose after all and will therefore stay. If you can see it or not will not change that.
Maybe instead of following a few uninformed people go and educate yourselves. All these posts “why did they get dropped for 1 or 2 new players” or “why did they get dropped because 3 players left”. None of these reasons are the actual reason they were dropped.
I am getting tired of explaining this rule over and over again, so feel free to find my old posts on the now locked topic. Looking at you Setsul.

Quoted from Setsul

Also since some many teams are affected by this rule and apparently none of them contacted an admin maybe it’s time for a newspost reminder about this rule? I mean let’s face it, people are lazy bastards and don’t read the rules. Unless of course they all contacted the admins but you chose to drop them anyway ’cause fuck ’em.

I might have some bad news for you here. If you dont want to read the rules, that is so not our problem to be brutally honest. The rules are openly available for everyone, if teams cannot put in the effort to even read the rules, that is completely their fault. We cannot and wont babysit teams or have reminders about rules every other week because teams forget or dont even read the rules in the first place. If you cannot put the the least effort in something like that, playing in a league might not be for you and that isnt only etf2l, thats any league.
So far 2,8% of all S8 teams were affected by this rule, that doesnt strike me as many. If we would go by that logic our only job would be writing reminders about rules, since there’s a lot of rules being enforced a lot more often.

Quoted from Setsul

Judging by how it was handled I can only conclude that whoever did this is either
-a retard who just blindly follows rules or
-a lazy bastard who can’t be bothered to contact the teams to sort this out or is afraid of the additional workload coming towards him once people learn that the admins might be reasoned with if you got dropped or
-an asshole who simply enjoys screwing people over.

As I pointed out in the other thread, every time we’re overruling rules with admin discretion theres an outcry because we put ourselves above the rules. Now you are asking for exactly that admin discretion, to change the rules, despite being a fairly clear cut case.
Can only repeat myself, we wont babysit and monitor all the teams. Additionally how can we know if teams are going to use 50%+ new players, by the time they do and we realize they did, it is too late already.
Yeah, our only source of happiness is screwing teams over. Thats what we are here for. ;_;

Quoted from Setsul

And now you’re just hiding behind a rule of thumb which is obviously set in stone and wait for this all to blow over while hoping the head admins can solve this issue by snapping their fingers. It’s a great strategy, if you wait a few more days you couldn’t get those teams back into the season even if you wanted to, so it’s not your problem anymore.

Again this complte nonsense argument. We have to base our decisions on the rules. Or the every rule would be completely arbitary and we would only have your beloved admin discretion.
The teams didnt bother to contact us and according to the rule and taking the circumstances into consideration I do not see a reason to put these teams back into the season.

Quoted from Setsul

retard
lazy bastard
asshole

This isn’t a personal opinion

Yeah, not personal at all, seems like a very objective opinion to me.

Warn a team for violation that has already occurred?

We cannot monitor every player change for each team in the season in order to warn them of the risk of breaking hijack rule.

Sonny Black you keep saying you are only enforcing a rule but the rule you were enforcing was not publicly available. You can’t place the blame on teams when something is not included in the rules section. Rule 3.5 was worded so vaguely and did not include any limits to how many players need to be on your original roster, teams would have been able to play around it if it did, so people feel betrayed when their team is banned for something that wasn’t in the rules. From this side of the argument it looks more like a rule containing admin discretion to stop teams being hijacked was taken advantage of rather than teams being justly punished.

Quoted from Morphine

Warn a team for violation that has already occurred?

We cannot monitor every player change for each team in the season in order to warn them of the risk of breaking hijack rule.

If you can’t monitor them to give warnings how are you finding them to punish these teams? Are you stating that every team that broke this unofficial rule was found manually?

The argument is moot anyway considering now it has happened teams are going to be aware that it can happen. Its just unfair that 4 teams (and quite frankly it reeks of cronyism that TC:A got away while others were still punished) and about 50 players had their seasons ruined because of the way this was all handled.

Quoted from birdy

maybe you should stop making excuses and accept that you like all these teams that dropped didn’t look, rather than trying to pass the blame on to etf2l because you apparently didn’t bother looking at the rules section or can’t read. niether of which is the fault of admins or the league.

Where in the rules does that state the limits? Where does it say you aren’t allowed less than 5 of your original roster in an official? If those are the limits then they should have been in the rules. The rules say ‘none or very few’ which to me is very different to what caused teams to be banned and why everyone is so upset about what happened.