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Quoted from Tom Spillfat

[…]

Aye this is sort of where my unpopular personal opinion comes into play, though. I personally dont like the fact that the combo often needs to uber in and focus the gun. It leaves large portions of the map shut down untill you get uber. this makes pushes mostly happen when you have uber, so dry pushes are a lot less frequent and the game becomes less fluid and slower. Not to mention that it severely limits the potential of flank classes to make plays for a large period of time.

not true

http://youtu.be/B2PhB6pIQLo?t=45m36s

Quoted from Tom Spillfat

[…]
it doesnt promote fun gameplay..

Depends what you call “fun”. Because, as an engi main, the fun comes from the fact that I can play and hold a position with my sentry. Remove the wrangler and all “my” fun goes out. And I’ll say that no wrangler doesn’t promote fun gameplay. It’s normal for a scout in attack PL to be annoyed by a wrangled sentry because you have 125hp and no fire power. And btw you can do that:
http://youtu.be/Qbl4XtPneG0?t=31s
You can use advantage of a wrangled sentry during a push, because the engi won’t focus you first.

Quoted from HartzFartz

[…]

at no point did I write that the combo focuses the sentry.

thats just a conclusion i drew from reading your post. i assumed that a combo distracting an engie meant that they shot at the gun. do they not?

If we’re going to talk weapon whitelist I might as well cash my 2 cents:

* Rescue ranger + wrangler are fine in my opinion. Banning wrangler will make engineer with level 3 too weak to really defend anything and engies will start running minis even more and I think promoting gunslinger goes against the spirit of what engineer is. As for the RR, it makes engie more fun and opens a lot of possibilities for him at the cost of gimping his self-defence abilities. Basically the way to counter these engies is killing them – which is much easier when they can’t really defend themselves without a sentry.

* Bazooka is also fine. I will agree it’s pretty damn strong for bombing provided you know how to jump with it, but it makes the soldier weaker in direct combat. Catch him with no rockets pre-loaded and he’s basically a free frag, hell even reflects are incredibly easy to predict in that situation.

* DR/Spycicle… well, for the longest time I thought they were absolutely fine as a pyro main. Well sure, a DR-cicle spy with good movement is extremely hard to kill as a pyro, but you can at least take away his knife and ensure he can’t do much more than annoy and distract with his gun, right? Well… since I met that handful of spies that can absolutely demolish a team with the ambassador alone, I’m not so sure any more.

Of course there are some fantastic spies with the default revolver but I don’t mind those because they have to be close range to do work. Now having what is essentially a second sniper wandering about your back lines, clicking everyone’s heads from out of the range of almost every other class… at that point it’s not really the pyro’s job any more, you have to get your flank classes to chase a spy, and potentially allow their flank classes to gain a lot of ground on you.

I’m not really saying anything should be banned, it’s the spy’s credit if he can aim so well he disrupts a team like that. But it makes me feel like a really useless pyro.

*EDIT* I said a couple of things about the reserve shooter but it turns out the NA pyros don’t run it because of a gentleman’s agreement and it’s about to be banned in UGC too so I stand corrected.

Quoted from Munky

RR+Wrangler combo: Is strong but removing either weapon would have a bigger negative effect than the positives any ban would bring. Banning the RR is the more realistic option of the two but it would be a sad day as it has made things so much more interesting and given so much utility to the engineer.

Beggars: Needs a ban. Seen some really stupid stuff in scrims and it dumbs the game down.

Imo only one who can even use beggars effectively is hartz

I would say that Beggars is mostly good on Payload Attack, for suicide waves, you can make some huge jumps on most Payload 1st points to get an important pick, while in the air you can load 3 rockets and unleash hell. It’s viable weapon, I wouldn’t say it destroys your flank, but you can take out/damage multiple targets much quicker. The only disadvantage of using Beggars is that you have to load all 3 rockets 24/7 (making you very dependable on Ammo Packs), regardless if there are enemies or not. Beggar’s soldier is easily taken down if he’s not aware of you, so if you manage to surprise him while he’s not loading anything, he’s an easy target.

The only map where you can run Beggar’s 24/7 is probably Cp_Steel, Soldier can hold A – E connector pretty much alone, tho it’s easily countered by either Bonk scout or Spy attacking you from behind, forcing you to choose between attacking People coming in from A or Spy/Bonk scout

Quoted from Scissors

[…]

very effective at having no flank at any point yes

Scissors nailed it.

Everytime I jump my team gets to be at an instant disadvantage on the flank. If the enemy medic buffs their solly and scout then they will win everytime over the single scout on my flank. It may very well be a good weapon and straight upgrade for the soldier but the downsides to it come to haunt you in metaplay. It just takes some coordination to counter the beggars effectivly but its cerainly within managable effort.

Just go watch chess vs fe upward official.

Edit: thank god w1nco has zimmer backing him up.