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ETF2L S16 Ruleset Feedback
Created 9th September 2013 @ 20:07
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Quoted from Monkeh
Axe was allowed when it first appeared. It got banned very shortly afterwards.
“Shortly”? Or when Vanilla hit?
More unlocks means 6’s becomes slightly more relevant to 99% of the TF2 player base. I’d like competitive TF2 to mean something to people outside of our own little microcosm.
Quoted from Monkeh
Pretty sure axe was banned almost instantly cuz free crits.
pyro was like first or 2nd class to get unlocks so no, everything was allowed but by the time everyone started to get op unlocks it got banned, so yeah… there was few month time that it was allowed
Quoted from Monkeh
@arx: A sniper I can dodge or hide from
Wrong. You can’t dodge a sniper as it is a hitscan weapon. You can attempt to make it harder for them to hit you, but it is _entirely_ dependent on their sniping ability as you have nothing to dodge. The only thing you can actively do to prevent a sniper from killing you instantly is to not be in their vision.
You also can’t always surf a soldier’s first rocket. If they hit you top down with a direct shot, then you’re not dodging anything. While not mentioned, you also can’t dodge a scattergun shot. If the scout aims at you and fires, you WILL take damage. At point blank a scout can two shot you. Scouts move faster than pyro’s but also get the added bonus of being able to gradually strip your health from a medium distance should they not want to get too close. They are more of a threat than a pyro.
By what you’re saying, it sounds like you believe that a Pyro is going to be more effective with these weapons than a stock soldier or scout? Are we going to see the meta game evolve into a full time pyro? I very much doubt it. You’re naming one small scenario where you might get killed where ordinarily you wouldn’t… but it’s hardly a game changer.
You need to also take into account the number of times you will survive because a pyro becomes more viable to defend you from bombing soldiers, especially the gunboats soldiers you complain about that do not have access to a shotgun meaning they are completely countered by a pyro. It’s this kind of linear thinking that has been the TF2 community’s downfall for a long time regarding unlocks. Try looking at the bigger picture for once.
well, tbh if we ban sniper because it is op then internet wins!
Quoted from accless
[…]
The pyro can use this exact setup in NA as well and he doesn’t run rampant there.
Because 6s players aren’t highlander pyro mains.
You’re not going to tell me that any 6s player who never plays highlander is a better pyro than average aggressive prem-div3 pyro, are you?
Last edited by Fresh'z,
I think what monkeh meant by ‘dodging’ is anticipating the shot. Sure, you can’t dodge hitscan, but you sure as hell can dodge a scout (in fact it’s piss easy at any level I’ve played at).
This argument is of course directly countered by “you’re not prem”, which I acknowledge and accept :)
Quoted from AcidReniX
just arx making sense.
I would add that there will be players that can play full time pyro better than they would be able to play full time soldier or scout, but most likely this will be them not being good enough at standard cookie cutter classes
Last edited by private_meta,
Quoted from Spike Himself
I think what monkeh meant by ‘dodging’ is anticipating the shot. Sure, you can’t dodge hitscan, but you sure as hell can dodge a scout (in fact it’s piss easy at any level I’ve played at).
You can anticipate that a pyro is going to blast you backwards too, so the key is not to get in range of it. At the end of the day, if a hit scan weapon is clicked on you, you will take damage meaning that it doesn’t matter how erratic you move around, if the enemy has his crosshair on you and presses his fire button, you are hit.
Projectiles are the opposite. The ball is entirely in your court as to if a projectile hits you, providing that it is at a range where your character has enough time to get out of the way (projectile speed, splash damage, your toon speed are the factors). There will be a specific distance where a soldier could fire a rocket and with the perfect reactions, you could take zero damage but any closer and it becomes unavoidable.
I have played TF2 before, so I’m aware of the Pyro’s effectiveness with the Axetinguisher, flare gun and degreaser combo and it a huge buff to the class, but why this miniscule threat would concern monkeh more than say, a soldier, scout, sniper or spy coming at him to the point where he is considering leaving the game… is beyond me. It’s another way you can get killed, but also another way you can be defended and honestly… I think this is going to be a buff to defending medics rather than taking them down.
Played UGC with a perma pyro with the now allowed set. I truly missed having that extra soldier/scout instead of the pyro most of the time. I like that they made pyro a more than m2-die class.
Quoted from AnimaL
well, tbh if we ban sniper because it is op then internet wins!
Sniper is OP, but luckily the TF2 community hasn’t got anyone good enough to exploit it. There are some epic high skill aimers playing different FPS games that given a TF2 sniper rifle, would shread a 6 man team apart. The ability to kill any class at any distance as long as they are visible (charging for a few seconds for some classes) is massively overpowered, but even our best snipers in the community aren’t quite good enough to turn this into a problem yet.
Quoted from AcidReniX
Wrong. You can’t dodge a sniper as it is a hitscan weapon.
Yeah yeah, semantics. I have dodged snipers shooting at me, I have dodged scouts shooting at me. At least I feel like I have some control over the situation. Stand behind my pocket, use some scenery as cover, spam WASD etc, stuff I can do to make it harder for them to kill me. Not true with deg/axe pyro, if he get’s close, I’m dead. (Full stop)
Quoted from AcidReniX
Scouts move faster than pyro’s but also get the added bonus of being able to gradually strip your health from a medium distance should they not want to get too close. They are more of a threat than a pyro.
So 2 flare guns hitting me from across the map is less than a full clip of pistol shots?
Quoted from AcidReniX
By what you’re saying, it sounds like you believe that a Pyro is going to be more effective with these weapons than a stock soldier or scout? Are we going to see the meta game evolve into a full time pyro? I very much doubt it.
You need to also take into account the number of times you will survive because a pyro becomes more viable to defend you from bombing soldiers, especially the gunboats soldiers you complain about that do not have access to a shotgun meaning they are completely countered by a pyro. It’s this kind of linear thinking that has been the TF2 community’s downfall for a long time regarding unlocks. Try looking at the bigger picture for once.
Haven’t you just answered your own question with the opposite answer there?
OK, so his/her base health isn’t great and it isn’t the most mobile and it doesn’t have a x2 cap, but when you can airblast people away, completely counter gunboats sollies, set nearby scouts on fire, kill anybody from miles away with flare gun, use incoming rockets to jump on their medic and kill anybody instantly with the axe, why the hell not?
Sounds like a pocket pyro might just be a great option, double gunboats sollies and pocket pyro, hell yeah. Scout can build uber and pyro rapes anything that comes near with crits, airblast and fire.
Opposing viewpoints will always find mutual understanding difficult. Pocket pyro, situational pyro, wherever that little weirdo turns up, he can kill me too easily and that isn’t fun.
Last edited by Monkeh,
German admins left. Shit is going down :D
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