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ETF2L S16 Ruleset Feedback
Created 9th September 2013 @ 20:07
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Also late to the party and I probably won’t get a response but whatever.
Quoted from Monkeh
I walk round a corner to an axe/degreas pyro and I’m dead. No question. He can kill me in a second up close. From across the map he can kill me with 2 flare gun shots, more or less. Great.
Why are you as a medic walking around the corner into an axe/degreaser pyro in the first place? Your pocket should be the first one around the corner. In any case though, this “no walking blindly around corners” thing is the same as making it harder for a sniper to shoot at you; you position yourself so that it’s hard for a pyro to get to you. You can then talk about the flare fun and long ranges, but the flare gun is piss easy to dodge at medium-high range. At anything less than medium range, the shotgun is more consistent which pyros have had forever and (apart from when the airblast was introduced in the first place) I haven’t seen any complains about pyros airblasting you into the wall to hit (relatively easy) 90 damage meatshots.
Quoted from Monkeh
We’ve spent years avoiding crits that don’t come from kreig spy or sniper, now we add two weapons that crit for a single class overnight! Masses of bovine faeces.
Flare crits are barely relevant, just make pyro more viable at long range (see last part of above). Axe crits being 195 damage hurts yeah, but if you’re in the position where you can die to a melee hit in TF2 (ignoring things like market gardener) then you’re probably in the wrong position.
Quoted from DavidTheWin
snip
airblast and source flame particle hitreg
Quoted from DavidTheWin
stuff
Yeah, I was just entertaining myself on a slow work day. Pyro’s are still shit, slightly more annoying then before, but shit and weak and poo and pee.
Think of me as Lucifer’s advortising feline.
Last edited by Monkeh,
w+m1 is quicker than puff n’ sting. What’s actually game-changing is the degreaser+flare gun combo.
It’s OP as fuck if the pyro is not shit and basically instakills scouts close to you, but if a pyro kills you with a long range flaregun then it was a deserved frag.
I wonder if roamers will begin using shotgun more often just because of this- or shotgun pyros meant specifically to counter other pyros.
Quoted from Fuxx
w+m1 is quicker than puff n’ sting. What’s actually game-changing is the degreaser+flare gun combo.
It’s OP as fuck if the pyro is not shit and basically instakills scouts close to you, but if a pyro kills you with a long range flaregun then it was a deserved frag.
I wonder if roamers will begin using shotgun more often just because of this- or shotgun pyros meant specifically to counter other pyros.
Do you have any background sources or organized matches that prove this? We’ve had these unlocks in NA since forever.
Last edited by mana,
Quoted from Fuxx
It’s OP as fuck if the pyro is not shit and basically instakills scouts close to you, but if a pyro kills you with a long range flaregun then it was a deserved frag.
tl;dr don’t get near the pyro
ITT: people thinking of scenarios in which a pyro could be good.
but it actually isn’t
Quoted from mana
[…]
Do you have any background sources or organized matches that prove this? We’ve had these unlocks in NA since forever.
Personal experience, observing others and a simple application of basic logic. These changes shook EU’s meta and if people don’t adapt or at the very least get used to playing against clever pyros then they’re just going to get rolled on. NA had the chance to get used to this alternate playstyle and even accompany the evolution of pyro over the years. Afterburn changes, reflect mini crits, flaregun crits, the degreaser, etc. only showed up after this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZoP4yctqA and while you had the chance to get used to it, EU did not. It’s suddenly being thrown out at us, the only time we have to adapt being these past couple of weeks. Highlander players in specific now stand a better chance than ever before in advancing in 6v6 because of this.
I mention the flaregun specificalyl because it really is OP in the right hands (well, then you could call virtually everything OP as long as it’s the right hands, but the point I’m getting here is that now people have one more thing to worry about). Only a fool would not immediately realize that these newly whitelisted unlocks won’t make a significant impact. Does this mean 24/7 pyros? Probably not, but obviously there will be a very visible increase of people off-classing to it.
Last edited by Fuxx,
Quoted from rytis
fuck me metalworks is so aids, I really do hope it gets removed
mad cuz bad?
Quoted from rytis
fuck me metalworks is so aids, I really do hope it gets removed
Still better than viaduct
Quoted from Fuxx
[…]
Personal experience, observing others and a simple application of basic logic. These changes shook EU’s meta and if people don’t adapt or at the very least get used to playing against clever pyros then they’re just going to get rolled on. NA had the chance to get used to this alternate playstyle and even accompany the evolution of pyro over the years. Afterburn changes, reflect mini crits, flaregun crits, the degreaser, etc. only showed up after this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndZoP4yctqA and while you had the chance to get used to it, EU did not. It’s suddenly being thrown out at us, the only time we have to adapt being these past couple of weeks. Highlander players in specific now stand a better chance than ever before in advancing in 6v6 because of this.
Wow, considering that you guys just won an i-series you sure are discrediting how strong the EU scene is. Only bad teams would ever say that a meta shift is “too much” for them. It’s a competitive league, if you aren’t adapting to the strats of the other team then you’re rightfully the team that’s worse. It’s not like no one is familiar with the Pyro is capable of. The Pyro’s role only changes marginally (I talk about this later). Teams could run Pyros before and have it be about as effective. It’s only that it’s had a change people are messing around, but if the EU scene is as strong as I’m giving them credit for (and I give them a lot of credit), then teams will revert back to the meta pre-Pyro unlocks because PYRO IS NOT VIABLE FULL TIME. If it was, we would have already seen it in NA, much more than one frag video with many gimmick kills (I have huge respect for BloodSire, but it’s not even close to viable on any map except Gravel Pit, and that video is old news at this point). I’m seriously laughing at the fact that you think that one frag video has had an impact on the Pyro meta. I know this isn’t representative of the EU scene but that’s so wimpy it’s surprising.
Quoted from Fuxx
I mention the flaregun specificalyl because it really is OP in the right hands (well, then you could call virtually everything OP as long as it’s the right hands, but the point I’m getting here is that now people have one more thing to worry about). Only a fool would not immediately realize that these newly whitelisted unlocks won’t make a significant impact. Does this mean 24/7 pyros? Probably not, but obviously there will be a very visible increase of people off-classing to it.
You have to be joking with this paragraph. A flare gun is only good at close range (and that’s if a Pyro is left unchecked which should NEVER be the case). At long range it can be dodged much easier than, say, a Sniper’s headshot. Not to mention to get the flare crits that would imply that the SAME person would have to be hit TWICE consecutively, which means that your team is terrible at positioning and doesn’t know how to move around. Only a fool wouldn’t think this makes significant impact? Ad hominems aside (AFAIK most Prem players are perfectly fine with this change, so have fun insulting them), we’ve had these unlocks in NA and Pyro is still only used in two situations: significant uber disadvantage or gimmick plays. If you have teamwork then gimmick plays never work. If you have significant uber disadvantage, the Pyro needs to sit at the choke of an incoming uber and just M2 all day. There’s very little room for a Pyro actually using those unlocks unless you let him. He’s only dangerous at short range, so as long as you aren’t caught out of position (which shouldn’t happen because Pyros really only work defensively) he is incredibly easy to focus fire.
I could keep on arguing but I’d rather not drag this on and on and on for the sake of avoiding redundancy. After all, there is a saying that says “arguing on the internet is like competing in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded” (not saying this to offend, so if you feel that way then I’m sorry, that was not my intention) so I’m going to go ahead and drop out of it. If you want to take this as you coming out victorious over the argument then, well, so be it, however I’ll have to state just one last thing and that is this: Epsilon and/or Prem div in general does not encompass the entirety of etf2l. You have to look at the big picture, at the league in it’s entirety.
Last edited by Fuxx,
There’s also a quote that comes to mind:
“…William wondered why he always disliked people who said ‘no offense meant.’ Maybe it was because they found it easier to to say ‘no offense meant’ than actually to refrain from giving offense.”
http://static.tumblr.com/v4vvd40/m75lmpfhe/tumblr_llgaeahjah1qiyqyfo1_500.gif
I posted that because I knew how it could be misinterpreted and I genuinely do not wish to offend. I have no reason to be petty over something like this.
Why can’t we be friends?
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