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Less Granary, perhaps?
Created 1st March 2013 @ 14:03
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Quoted from Monkeh
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I heard a lot of complaints about the i46 final being very boring during gravelpit.
The end is always fun but the middle bit can be very dull.
Granary instead is much more exiting ;D
I agree with the ones saying we should have a larger map pool, which is different from shitty maps
I’d like to play Gpit again because it allows many different ways to be played, and you can play all 9 classes usefully.
We should also give another try to viaduct, obviosly using the most recent version (viaduct_pro_rc3 or something?), because it fun to watch and play since all classes can have lot of fun on it.
Arx raise a good point: top teams (and anyone who aims at a good position in their div as well imo) should prove to be the best at every aspect of the game, and coordinating on different playstyle maps proves so.
I’d like to point out furthermore that the most common reason claimed by those who dont want Gpit in is/used to be “we dont get pcw on it/no one plays it apart from the weeks it is mandatory”.
I now want to know by these guys how often they get pcw on granary during off-season or during any other week granary is not played on ETF2L.
Because my team didnt (and we dont even have to play granary because both teams dropped so fuck yeah), and I can guess that 90% do so as well.
And Granary is boring for everyone but sollys and demo (is there any map that isnt?).
Last edited by Leif,
Fucking hell, Gravelpit is fucking worse than Goldrush, 80% of time you spend doing nothing and/or waiting.
Would also like to +1 arx’s comment about aspects of TF2.
At the moment we find the best teams at 5CP TF2, which is a small facet only, a lack of decent maps and community apathy means it ‘aint never gonna happen unfortunately.
Quoted from Kaneco
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Why would it be awful to cast viaduct, or even gravelpit? Gravelpit is awesome and very exciting to watch / play. I imagine casting it wouldn’t be that much harder… Annd viaduct is way more fun as well from the spectator and player side, and no big stale situations so probably your only problem is never being able to take a break :D
Well, I quite like gravelpit from a spectators point of view. I think it can be very exciting to watch.
From a player’s point of view, it can be very punishing, and very much a lottery. You can make one slip up, and you’ve just lost your team points in the league. Other maps allow for some element of recovery, but not gravelpit. Still… it can be fun to play.
From a commentator’s point of view, it is great fun to cast! Especially for my own style of casting (a lot of analysis).
The biggest problem with Gravelpit, was the grand final at i46. See… commentating that map requires a lot of discussion about strategy. There’s never much play-by-play going on, and there are so many different ways a team can play the map. But on the stage, the players can hear you in the downtime (when there’s not much in game noise going on). You can’t discuss what the other team is doing, because it is literally golden information for the enemy team to hear. If you mention where they are pushing from, and a player on the opposite team hears it, they can rotate their whole defense to that entrance, and if the enemy team has to back off and take a different route, it’s costing them time and therefore influencing the match result.
You can’t talk about kritz, snipers, spies, sentry gun positions, or even the fact that sentries exist, because information like that would normally cost a team ‘time’ to find out for themselves, and giving away that information means they don’t have to scout it… saving them time.
Now not giving away information would be fine, except there is nothing else going on. You can’t talk about how a team is setting up in setup time… There’s nothing happening while a team is in the spawn, and still very rarely anything happening when the team is capping an uncontested A point. As casters in that situation, that’s around 2 minutes where we might as well talk about what we had for dinner last night.
In short, the exciting part of gravelpit (excluding the race against the clock at the end), is the strategies involved, and you can’t speak about them when the players can hear you, so it’s extremely dull.
Quoted from Leif
And Granary is boring for everyone but sollys and demo (is there any map that isnt?).
From a medic pov, badlands, process, gullywash, snakewater are all maps I don’t mind playing at all (ok I hate process but that’s only because it’s new and I have yet to get used to it (yes I’m slow)).
As for koth maps, I don’t know. We get a bunch of people every season, asking if we can have a koth map, and every time we host any sort of poll, koth maps never see much favour for whatever reason. As for me personally, I think I’ve played viaduct once or twice in a 6v6 format (a long time ago) and, besides snipers being terribly annoying, it’s not all that bad.
I’d like to try a payload map in a 6v6 format, if only to see how it’d work out. Gonna guess it’s not going to be much fun at all, but who knows!
On a similar note, I still think it’s worth having a look at the sd mode, just not doomsday.
Quoted from AcidReniX
You can make one slip up, and you’ve just lost your team points in the league. Other maps allow for some element of recovery, but not gravelpit.
I think “slip up” is the poorest of word choices you could’ve gone for here. The fact it requires the ultimate teamwork is exactly what makes gpit a good map imo. Exactly because you can’t afford any mistakes.
Last edited by Spike Himself,
Quoted from Kaneco
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Gravelpit is awesome and very exciting to watch / play.
Umm no. Extreamly boring to play and watch. Just watch i46 final, gravelpit was much much much more boring than other 2 maps.
Quoted from Spike Himself
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From a medic pov, badlands, process, gullywash, snakewater are all maps I don’t mind playing at all (ok I hate process but that’s only because it’s new and I have yet to get used to it (yes I’m slow)).
I meant that every map is fine to be played as solly and demo, since there are people claiming solly isnt because scout op
The G’pit problem is a big one though, costing your team a whole 3 points because of 1 little slip up is a bit of an over punishment. Playing it through twice was the fix for this and then we play g’pit for 16 hours or so…it’s just a fact that it’s either the most incredibly punishing map or the most long winded affair and gets boring.
The most played modes in public TF2 are PL and A/D by a freakin’ mile. Most pub players will never have even set foot on cp_badlands. This is the biggest barrier for entry to 6v6 imho, not only do new players have to learn how to 6v6, weapons allowance and team set-up/roles they also have to learn maps they’ve never heard of or played as well.
When TF2 was all shiny and new and we had no maps to play, (yes I remember when badlands was brought out, it caused much excitement and then was widely hated, how times change huh?), I played 6v6 and 7v7 on goldrush, dustbowl, well and gravelpit, hydro though…no-one ever played hydro, and I can say I loved dusty and goldy in 6v6…very much a div 7 perspective mind.
Here’s the very first tf2 video I made, (god it’s awful), of a 6v6 match on goldrush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rps04lkzicc
We played 9men in a 6v6 ladder match on dustbowl and it was awesome: http://etf2l.org/matches/18130/
Please can we have a dustbowl one night cup?
To make a good A/D map, the attackers must have a winning percent of at least 60% in pubs. GPIT is close to this, iirc. Maps like goldrush, dustbowl etc, the winning % is like 30.
Also, if a map has mega hps, it will never work in 6v6. I’m not sure why, but every map with them has sucked so far.
Quoted from Chaplain
This seasons map pool has been the best ever, and although I miss gpit I know if its added again I will never pcw on it and when the official comes it will last 2 hours. I would rather anally ingest a rake then have gpit back.
Couldnt agree more!
Who is the maker of the proest version and is there a changelog somewhere?
Anyone know?
Quoted from Spike Himself
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Anyone know?
isnt it Markfsr?
http://etf2l.org/forum/maps/topic-17184/?recent=405675
found the thread as well
Last edited by rytis,
Quoted from AcidReniX
-snip-
In short, the exciting part of gravelpit (excluding the race against the clock at the end), is the strategies involved, and you can’t speak about them when the players can hear you, so it’s extremely dull.
I understand that point completely, but given that ETF2L is an online league with no LAN component, surely these arguments are irrelevant? Just don’t play gravelpit on LANs, only online, and the casters can discuss that delicious strategy metagame to their hearts’ content.
(Also, surely those comments about strategy apply to all LAN setups? I mean if one medic switches to kritz on badlands and you call it out on the cast where the other team can hear you, the same problem exists. Similarly if at the end of a midfight it’s a scout vs 3 players, he might be considering backing out until he hears the casters go “oh and it’s 1v3 but all three on RED are so so weak, if the scout goes in now he could easily clear up and take this mid” then he’s going to go in instead of falling back. It’s not a gravelpit problem, it’s a LAN casting problem.)
Last edited by almightybob,
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