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[HL S2] Unlock Feedback
Created 29th January 2012 @ 23:01
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Quoted from slate
[…]
I’m pretty sure the saharan spy set would suck hard in a organised highlander game. You’re crippeling yourself with such a bad gun and no disguises.
if that was true , then there is no reason to ban saharan spy. so its not enough you want to ban items you think overpowered, you also want to ban items that are underpowered?
Quoted from JDx
[…]
if that was true , then there is no reason to ban saharan spy. so its not enough you want to ban items you think overpowered, you also want to ban items that are underpowered?
A main reason to ban the set is that it is unfair to all players in a community and all players that wish to play. I say this because you have to have all the items in the set to have the bonus thus those players that are new to game may not have all the items in the set putting them at a disadvantage already compared to a team that may have the items.
Also is it really fair that a hat gives a bonus? Unusuals were banned because it puts spies at a disadvantage and the same goes for set bonuses.
Just been talking to the EU UGC admin and the holiday punch does affect people in an uber so therefore should be banned :D (but wanna wanna try it out to make sure though)
Quoted from Hildreth
Reason Enforcer was banned has been explained clearly, we don’t intend to re-introduce the weapon unless Valve change it to balance it a little better.
JDx we appreciate your feedback, my colleagues from the admin team have already answered your questions more or less but let me just state that as a league we will probably ban about 6 or 7 weapons this season. I don’t think we will ban anymore than 10 weapons in future seasons ever unless Valve decide to release several items we deem bannable. We really want to play with as little weapon bans as possible but we’ve learned from experience you need to say ‘no’ and ban particular items for the sake of enjoyable games. Nearly everyone wants to see the Enforcer banned, we did a season with it and saw it was used by the majority of spies and its only negative quality isn’t particularly big, a tiny amount less of cloak time makes close to 0 difference, especially with the Dead Ringer.
We will update the whitelist so your players need not accidentally equip the weapons for Season 2 and the small amount of items banned makes very little difference. Highlander will be as close to your expectations of it as possible, you will have a variety of weapon choices to experiment with just like in a public TF2 server…only a few items have been banned.
With this said lets try and move away from discussing The Enforcer – we have made our position clear on it and we would rather discuss the newer weapons.
what about the saharan spy ? The Expert’s Ordnance ? The Hibernating Bear? and the rest of the sets? all banned even if they all not overpowered?
about the new weapons, as a mainly spy and medic player , I dont like the new engie weapon , but I dont think it is reason for a ban.
about the new weapons and their cripling effects on game fps – personally I don’t think that is a reason for ban. pro gamers should have supirour hardware, just like pro athletes have supirour facilities to train. When I was playing quake3 years ago , there was a bug that people found out , that in computers who can maintain the game on exactly 125fps , there was significant boost in game phsycs – meaning you can jump for slightly longer distances and go slightly faster. needless to say the pro community then didn’t empose less then 125 fps on gamers, in order to support the older computer players.
Last edited by JDx,
Quoted from Jazz
[…]
A main reason to ban the set is that it is unfair to all players in a community and all players that wish to play. I say this because you have to have all the items in the set to have the bonus thus those players that are new to game may not have all the items in the set putting them at a disadvantage already compared to a team that may have the items.
by this false logic , we should ban all weapons , because new players dont have all the weapons in the game when they start to play , puting them at a disadvantage..
your explantion is just a rationalizition you made about their ban till today.
the sad truth is, that from the first place , it probably was wrong un-thoughtable action to ban them as they not overpowered, and now you want to ban them because you dont think it threw again.
Last edited by JDx,
Quoted from JDx
[…]
what about the saharan spy ? The Expert’s Ordnance ? The Hibernating Bear? and the rest of the sets? all banned even if they all not overpowered?
about the new weapons, as a mainly spy and medic player , I dont like the new engie weapon , but I dont think it is reason for a ban.
about the new weapons and their cripling effects on game fps – personally I don’t think that is a reason for ban. pro gamers should have supirour hardware, just like pro athletes have supirour facilities to train. When I was playing quake3 years ago , there was a bug that people found out , that in computers who can maintain the game on exactly 125fps , there was significant boost in game phsycs – meaning you can jump for slightly longer distances and go slightly faster. needless to say the pro community then didn’t empose less then 125 fps on gamers, in order to support the older computer players.
What kind of argument is that? Am I not allowed to play competitive multiplayer games because I’m on a shit computer?
Dude you are fucking HILARIOUS.
Quoted from JDx
[…]
by this false logic , we should ban all weapons , because new players dont have all the weapons in the game when they start to play , puting them at a disadvantage..your explantion is just a rationalizition you made about their ban till today.
the sad truth is, that from the first place , it probably was wrong un-thoughtable action to ban them as they not overpowered, and now you want to ban them because you dont think it threw again.
Even when largely nullified due to lack of disguising and communications the Saharan Spy Set is immensely frustrating when coupled with the DR. Aside from the DR’s own issues (blatantly obvious he’s not dead, but you can’t do much) it completely nullifies the DR’s biggest downside. You can uncloak directly behind someone and he won’t notice until you’re stabbing him/unless he turns around.
For the sake of keeping things fun for as many people as possible, it’s banned and will remain banned.
JDx: Could you tell me why you never tried competitive gaming in TF2? You have 0 experience as far as I can tell, but alot of ideas. It would be easier for you to play some matches and see first hand why things are run, like they are run now :)
Quoted from JDx
[…]
by this false logic , we should ban all weapons , because new players dont have all the weapons in the game when they start to play , puting them at a disadvantage..your explantion is just a rationalizition you made about their ban till today.
the sad truth is, that from the first place , it probably was wrong un-thoughtable action to ban them as they not overpowered, and now you want to ban them because you dont think it threw again.
Well if you think thats how im think go play 6v6.
What im saying is that why should the power of a hat discriminate against new players. Lets move from the obviously (said sarcastically) under powered Saharan set to the Sniper set where with the power of a hat you can negate a headshot from the other sniper. Which is punishing the sniper for being accurate. This not OP?
Or how about giving the scout extra 25hp meaning he sustainability is dramatically increased?
Admitally ever since the Mann Co update the sets have nearly always been banned.
Play some comp tf2 and comp highlander and play with all the unbanned weapons and everything and just see what happens. <——- New idea for a cup let everything go cup or the JDx Cup.
This thread now stops being about JDx and his whims. We and the community have been patient with you, trying to explain in constructive manners why we do the things the way we do them here. But you are not exactly listening, and it’s become clear that your agenda is that you want to play saharan spy and nothing more. Which doesn’t even make sense in an environment where people communicate through headsets. I suggest you play in our league so you learn how it works before barging in here and telling us we’re doing it all wrong.
We now return to the original discussion: the unlocks for season 12. Any off topic posts will be removed and I will ban people that keep up this pointless discussion.
Out of interest i know the bombinomacon is banned.
Are you going to ban the jiggle belt and bootie time (both jiggle items for pyro and scout)?
As there sound effect is continuous and highly annoying and technically the same as an unusual once was, if a spy was a scout with the bootie time he cant reproduce the sound?
we will test those and like community feedback on them. I have to admit I don’t know these weapons.
Quoted from Beef
we will test those and like community feedback on them. I have to admit I don’t know these weapons.
There not weapons there hats just so you know. :D
Those sound effects can get annoying but they also reveal enemy location :P
After messing around with the Phlogistinator in a silly doublemix I find that there might not actually be a need to ban it. It’s very much OP in pub play due to being able to get into 1v1 situations so much more often but in organized highlander play its effectiveness drops considerably. Also since sollys, demos and heavys are more skilled in competitive even a pyro with crits has no chance in a frontal attack. Only by surprising the enemy will you get several kills with the Phlog but it’s still likely that you’ll die after getting just one.
Also, a team with a Phlog pyro will be severely crippled by not having the ability to airblast. Airblasting is super-important in highlander, much more so than in pubs. Perhaps there are some possible uses for an aggressive sneaky Phlog pyro but that would come with a the very high cost of not having a defensive pyro. That’s why I think in at least competitive highlander the Phlog isn’t overpowered at all, it’s an entirely different weapon with entirely different uses and those uses come with a trade-off of other significant uses of the pyro. Even if it is allowed I don’t teams will be rushing to go for Phlog pyro.
I’m new here, but I have been interested in Highlander competitions for a while. And if I were to join, I’d want the following items banned:
Scout
Soda Popper – While it is possible to see if a Scout has the mini-crit boost at any given time, you have no way of telling how close he is to getting it. Additionally, the mini-crits come with little effort and have little risk to them.
Mad Milk – I feel that Scouts should avoid damage; after all, their frailty is their only real weakness. Mad Milk goes directly against that, and while making classes more allround is acceptable in pubs, Highlander is a game mode that should highlight classes’ strengths and weaknesses.
Sandman – I’d be fine with it if it didn’t slow opponents down when stunned. But it does, essentially making said opponent a free kill.
Soldier
Everything legal. – I had some doubts about the Gorbort pack. I don’t like the weapons, but I can’t think of a proper argument not to allow them.
Pyro
Phlogistinator – The huge damage reduction when taunting is what kills this one for me. That, and the fact that it basically encourages W+M1, which isn’t very enjoyable to watch.
Demoman
Everything legal. – It’s like with Soldier. I personally don’t like the Demoknight subclass, but it’s unique and can make for exciting moments. And it’s not exactly overpowered, so… yeah.
Heavy
Tomislav – It’s just a straight upgrade. But more importantly, it all but removes the thing that defines the Minigun, and Heavy in general: he needs a short time to prepare for the fight. Like Mad Milk, I feel like it makes the class too allround.
Engineer
Pomson 6000 – It removes Über. I feel like that says everything that needs to be said.
Wrangler – It’s too much. The shield in particular is a big problem for me: it stays up during the deactivation period, during which it can be repaired. If you want to take out the sentry, you have to get the Engineer first. But you can’t, because between his manually controlled sentry and his teammates, he’s as safe as a baby in the womb.
Short Circuit – I don’t feel like this one is overpowered, really. But protecting your gear is something that Pyro has always been perfect for. With the Short Circuit, that Pyro role becomes obsolete.
Medic
Everything legal – Medic has got to be the only class whose unlockables don’t bother me even in the slightest. You could make an argument for the Amputator and the Solemn Vow being straight upgrades, but really, who uses the Bonesaw for anything but the awesome taunt?
Sniper
Sydney Sleeper – No headshots. That’s like giving Pyro a flamethrower that doesn’t light people on fire. It takes away the class’s defining feature, and replaces it with unsatisfying bodyshots. The Jarate effect is interesting, but in my humble opinion it’s not enough to justify legality.
Machina – The upside only take effect when the weapon is fully charged, and at that point, it only makes a difference with a bodyshot. I don’t know if I consider it overpowered, but I do know that it’s no fun to play against or spectate. (As for the penetrating rounds: cool when it happens, but it never happens.)
Spy
Enforcer – Paired with the Dead Ringer, it gives a massive buff with no downside. And even with the other watches, it gives Spy a ridiculous amount of head-on firepower, which is the opposite of what Spy should have.
Spy-cicle – What’s the downside, really? Yeah, you lose your knife for 15 seconds, but I’d say that that’s a whole lot better than waiting to respawn for the same amount of time. The silent kills are just icing on the cake.
…Just some thoughts.
Last edited by K9GM3,
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