Forum
Legitimate question
Created 6th October 2011 @ 16:43
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Quoted from ashkan
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This has been suggested and discussed a bit. The thing is, no current admins ignore rule-breaks (to my knowledge). It’s so easy for them to just drop a link in the IRC channel, that there’s virtually no work involved in reporting it. And once it has been reported, dealing with the case has not been a problem with the current admins. What we DO need, is people who read everything. That’s what the admins don’t have time to do (sweep the whole forums on a regular basis, making sure nothing is missed). And who would be better to report all of that, than the users themselves? What we have to assure is that the users can easily do so, so they actually do it! :p
In my opinion, a report button would be oh so sweet.[…]
True dat, we need to keep stuff like that in mind and figure out a solution.
IMO we need to rely less on the internets good hearted nature and rely more on a team of people dedicated to actually improving and maintaining a good environment.
(There are varying levels of sarcasm and sincerity in that single sentence.)
The current situation is improvable, indeed. But everything is improvable, always.
However, the current system is already very good. The bans for notorious trolls or people, who intentionally insult others by that provoke a similar response, are very nice to be seen.
When I read the thread about Steve Jobs, I found it nice in a certain way that people showed their condolence. No matter who he was, he passed away and that is a sad thing. Sharing condolence via a gaming forum is surely uncommon but there is nothing wrong with it.
But I felt somewhat disgusted to read troll comments and just…. inappropriate comments on his death. I am going to repeat myself a bit: I dont care who he was or what he achieved, but he was a human being and recently passed away.
At that point I was very glad to see such trolls and … i restrain myself to post an insutling word here. Even though those words would really be rather describing than insulting in that case.
Even Spike himself was banned for acting inappropriately, even though he is an admin. That should show everyone that the admin team tries to treat everyone the same way
TL;DR: I am glad to see people get banned for inappropriate behaviour. The current way of moderating the forums has improved a lot lately. And ashkan, you are often the “bad guy” who posts reasons and ban lengths… But one has to do it, because it is the best way to handle it. Otherwise we would look at the all so evil “gestapo admins”. (That comment made me lol irl. :D) Anyways… good job admins. Im totally fine with the moderation.
Peace.
I can safely say that no one has suffered and complained more about a ban than Spike :D
And that includes league bans.
Use a karma system like stack overflow. Yes, I know this is to much to implement but it would be sweet.
An easy way that has been suggested before is just to get som forum moderators. They don’t need to be admins just able to moderate the forum.
Quoted from FAINTAYDAYDAYDAYDAYD
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thing is, a lot of people can’t be bothered posting on here anymore simply because the rules aren’t enforced consistently enough, and half of the time 1 person will get banned/warned for something, and someone else won’t.Shouldn’t have sweared etc
Would you prefer rules not being enforced at all? Like come on :/
Quoted from Kortz
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Would you prefer rules not being enforced at all? Like come on :/
Id prefer them to be enforced all the time…
Quoted from Dummy
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Id prefer them to be enforced all the time…
In a discussion like that, we can only round down, not up, as that counts as requesting or, in this case, soft whining. The only answer one can give you to your comment is: they are trying and you should support them as much as you can (if not by the means already suggested, then get creative).
Quoted from Kortz
[…]
Would you prefer rules not being enforced at all? Like come on :/
They should always be enforced, at least when they get pointed out.
when 1 person gets banned for swearing in 1 thread, and in the very same thread someone else says something of a similar nature and nothing happens, it kinda defeats the point..
Quoted from FAINTAYDAYDAYDAYDAYD
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They should always be enforced, at least when they get pointed out.
when 1 person gets banned for swearing in 1 thread, and in the very same thread someone else says something of a similar nature and nothing happens, it kinda defeats the point..
I can not remember a case where this happened, someone reported the post to an admin and no action was taken. We simply can not see everything. Forum moderators will miss things as well, we are all just human. If you think that a punishment was unfair or someone else deserves a similar punishment, let us know and we will deal with it.
ymmud: i hope you feel bad
@CanFo: no, we are admins. we like being mean
there is your proof, the admin team cares not for proper forum modding C:<
Quoted from Bassie
Admins are admins, they do what they think is right. Get over it. Don’t like it? Go cry to yourself in the toilet…
This.
Quoted from archy
TL;DR: I am glad to see people get banned for inappropriate behaviour. The current way of moderating the forums has improved a lot lately. And ashkan, you are often the “bad guy” who posts reasons and ban lengths… But one has to do it, because it is the best way to handle it. Otherwise we would look at the all so evil “gestapo admins”. (That comment made me lol irl. :D) Anyways… good job admins. Im totally fine with the moderation.
And this.
Quoted from ashkan
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Well, I thought at least you would know. It has been stated a couple of times that I’m not the only admin reading the forums, or the only one deciding what the punishment will be, or the strictest admin. I thought you had actually read the posts you’re complaining about.
[…]
Hmm, let’s see here…
1) Ashkan bans someone and shortly states what he was banned for and how long.
2) A bunch of people who don’t know the rules, previous ban history and have no trust for admins start complaining in private, in IRC and in the thread.
3) The ones to complain outside the thread are given an elaborate explanation and now accept the ban.
4) They tell the admins that they should say that in the thread too, so people know exactly why he was banned like that and stop complaining.
5) The admins ask Ashkan to post in the thread as soon as possible.
6) As requested by community members, Ashkan wastes an hour of studying to give an elaborate explanation in the thread and in private.And what does that sum up to?
“you give a speech about herp they were naughty, derp they were banned before”[…]
Another way of putting it would be:
“Please do not derail this thread further. My best suggestion is to contact an admin on IRC in order to discuss any complaints or questions.”And the way I usually put it:
“If you have any questions or complaints, please contact an admin: http://etf2l.org/etf2l/support/ ”[…]
Why should we let someone else take the hit? As I said in my last post, I don’t take anything personally. The problem is when someone says that he wants to improve the forum and our moderation, but does so under the false assumptions that I am the only moderator, that I always decide what punishment will be handed out, and that I’m stricter than everyone else. When you’re having a discussion, you need to base it on facts, not illogical assumptions.
I don’t think any admin would have problems moderating the forums. For every loud-mouth derailing threads and throwing around insults, there’s a person adding admins to Steam or messaging them on IRC, showing support and where the silent majority stands.
[…]
That is correct, we’ve had a bunch of complaints about not being elaborate enough.
Bloody hell. Please stop trying to flatten out critcism with these giant, comprehensive essays. We know you’re doing your job, you’re trying to make it transparent, etc. My actual complaint is the manner in which you make the bans so colourfully visible to everyone, so much that people other than those banned complain too! But I discussed that earlier with CanFo. You seem more concerned with how we’re blaming you:
Why should we let someone else take the hit? As I said in my last post, I don’t take anything personally. The problem is when someone says that he wants to improve the forum and our moderation, but does so under the false assumptions that I am the only moderator, that I always decide what punishment will be handed out, and that I’m stricter than everyone else. When you’re having a discussion, you need to base it on facts, not illogical assumptions.
I’m saying maybe you should let someone else do the dirty work; you complained earlier that you’re the one getting all the blame, and you’re complaining here as well! Neither me nor anyone else ever assumed you were the only moderator. There’s a big list of staff http://etf2l.org/etf2l/staffright here[/url]. The discontent has generally been aimed at you because the visible moderation is always handled by you.
If you want, you can write me another lecture about how it’s not your fault, but I’m not going to sift through it. I made my specific point of complaint in regards to the ‘ban lists’ to CanFo earlier in the thread; that was my goal, not to start an anti-Ashkan campaign
Quoted from Sylosin
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Bloody hell. Please stop trying to flatten out critcism with these giant, comprehensive essays.
I’m sorry.
I didn’t realize I was trying to flatten out criticism by comprehensively answering you and explaining arguments. I will try to leave important details out and be more mysterious next time.
My actual complaint is the manner in which you make the bans so colourfully visible to everyone
I’m not sure what “colourfully” means in this context (I assume it’s just one of the dozen words you use to give your arguments more flare), but people complained a lot about us not giving enough details and explanations, so we started doing that. After this ordeal, we have learnt to be even more elaborate, and state how many previous bans the user has. One day, I would like to see a dedicated page for all that info. A girl can dream…
so much that people other than those banned complain too!
In this case, people didn’t complain about the fact that we stated how long the ban was. They complained because they saw how long the ban was, and thought it was unfair. When we explained it to them, they agreed with the decision. So the problem was not that we made the ban so visible, it was just the opposite: We didn’t explain it well enough.
Another option would be to simply ban the person and not say anything, but that’s already been discussed in this thread. As I’m sure you understand by now, people will complain no matter what we do, but I think the best system would be to have automatic private messaging to the punished user. If we get that and a report button, you can find me in Nirvana.
I’m saying maybe you should let someone else do the dirty work; you complained earlier that you’re the one getting all the blame, and you’re complaining here as well!
Please state where I complained about taking blame.
But first, make sure you know the difference between complaining and correcting people who build their arguments on false assumptions.
Neither me nor anyone else ever assumed you were the only moderator. There’s a big list of staff http://etf2l.org/etf2l/staffright here[/url]. The discontent has generally been aimed at you because the visible moderation is always handled by you.
You have said the following in this thread:
– That the Steve Jobs thread was locked because I have a God complex.
– That I throw bans around like confetti.
– That I should go easy on the moderation.
Like it or not, you’re working on the assumption that I am responsible for whatever you conceive to be the problem. In order to carry on a constructive discussion, you need to know the facts. I gave you the facts, after which you moved your focus to flaws in the system rather than psychological issues with me. That’s all great and we appreciate the feedback given in this thread, but please drop the idea that I took things personally because I explained that you shouldn’t be focusing on the person that presents the bans.
I made my specific point of complaint in regards to the ‘ban lists’ to CanFo earlier in the thread; that was my goal, not to start an anti-Ashkan campaign
That’s great. All constructive feedback is appreciated.
I only wish you had reached your goal without first claiming I have God complex, that I moderate too strictly, complaining about me giving speeches and suggesting that I let someone else talk to the public. I mean, that sounds more like an anti-Ashkan campaign than a complaint about the fact that we state the ban length.
Can people shut the fuck up seriously, boohoo I got banned from forums for 1 or 2 days.
Glad to see admins do their work, should go even more “nazi” like teamliquid admins, would solve alot of things.
And no, i’m not sarcastic.
Yay, another essay!
Firstly, a god complex is not an actual medical condition, it’s a general term for when someone in power makes lots of crazy decisions and refuses to consider that they might not be the right ones. I said this before CanFo explained the ban process to me. Please remember that as an admin you know the system inside out and those that aren’t admins don’t.
Quoted from ashkan
Like it or not, you’re working on the assumption that I am responsible for whatever you conceive to be the problem. In order to carry on a constructive discussion, you need to know the facts. I gave you the facts, after which you moved your focus to flaws in the system rather than psychological issues with me. That’s all great and we appreciate the feedback given in this thread, but please drop the idea that I took things personally because I explained that you shouldn’t be focusing on the person that presents the bans.
Believe it or not, you are responsible for the posts you make and the know-it-all attitude you take when you’re scrutinised. That’s what I perceive to be the problem, aside from the issue of the banlength announcements discussed earlier. I moved on from attacking you to attacking the system because you and CanFo made the ban process clear to me, so I made my suggestion. If you really didn’t take what I’ve said personally, then you’re sure as hell going to some lengths to correct me.
This discussion has been fairly productive and I thought my involvement would end after I made my suggestions back on page2, but it seems you’re fixed on perpetuating this and really making sure I see that you didn’t take it personally. Cool, whatever, just stop with the pettiness and the walls of text. You’ve made your point, and I made mine five pages ago, so you may as well stop.
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