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Quoted from CrashSite

Wow, Freight actually getting support?

I think people are blinded to the MASSIVE FUCKING FAULTS of that map, as they are only remembering the good things and comparing it to the bad things about new maps.

It had awful second point, the last was the easiest to defend, if you played it right, you could hold it FOREVER.

Middle was ok, but due to lack of any height on the middle was boring as fuck, compared to other mids.

This. I enjoyed playing freight but HOLY FUCK there’s some SERIOUS flaws in it.

would like to see warmfront more, don’t know why people have such a problem with it…

freight>bazillion though.

I think an interesting question has arisen from all this debate:

What makes a good map, due to the conflicting opinions, is there an answer?

Personally I love gpit, it shows off team work better than every map and I have never played a map so intense in officals, when the times can be so close. It also allows for some of the other classes to shine, which provides for interesting games.

On the other hand others seem to hate it, saying that the one team pushing/ one defending dynamic is boring.

As for 5 CP maps, the opinions on which are good are massively different. Arnold once pointed out the flaws with both Badlands and granary and yet we still hold them in such high-esteem. What do people want in a map?

Quoted from Dummy

[…]
interested in the flaws of badlands!
i guess balance makes a good map, if no class is really hard to counter then its fine

BL last caps far to fast, this is problem for two reasons. First very easy to spy cap or rush scoot through right, needs about 0.5 secs more. Also very hard to push from last to 2nd even if you wipe them, might not be true higher up, but I still find it hard cap, as one or two of you will have gone down, have to leave someone on last, if this is so, or someone watching dropdown.

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]

BL last caps far to fast, this is problem for two reasons. First very easy to spy cap or rush scoot through right, needs about 0.5 secs more. Also very hard to push from last to 2nd even if you wipe them, might not be true higher up, but I still find it hard cap, as one or two of you will have gone down, have to leave someone on last, if this is so, or someone watching dropdown.

Last caps fast because it is so close to resupply and enemies are usually near the point all the time. Also badlands last is very small area so going on the point means high risk high reward.

Pushing out from second: lets look at granary and badlands now. Granary has an hard to cap but easy to avoid back caps second, when badlands have completely opposite, if you will check for back caps and will manage to get scout on spire and hold choke with demo/soldier the point is yours.

I find it funny how the OP needed to create an alt just to suggest freight.

Quoted from dauk

[…]

Last caps fast because it is so close to resupply and enemies are usually near the point all the time. Also badlands last is very small area so going on the point means high risk high reward.

Pushing out from second: lets look at granary and badlands now. Granary has an hard to cap but easy to avoid back caps second, when badlands have completely opposite, if you will check for back caps and will manage to get scout on spire and hold choke with demo/soldier the point is yours.

You aren’t really in a position to push out from cp1 when the enemy team is holding lobby with equal uber.

What do people want in a map? I think most people don’t know what they want, I can only guess to whatever reasoning they use to determine the quality of a map.

As you can see the support for freight, fastlane and the like.

Quoted from Dummy

[…]
on mid atleast I want all the classes to not be overpowered and to have the mid be pro combat, not against it for all/most classes whichs the case of freight for example

Apart from maybe snipers and the train freight mid is actually a pretty decent cp. It’s the others that’s the real problem. Having a map that doesn’t favour any class in particular is a given you don’t really need to mention something like that.

Also everything you do in tf2 can be defined as combat, you are being too vague, If i’d have to guess it’s that you would want to run around and shoot people… but that’s exactly what happens on every map ever made.