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Highlander pickups are alive
Created 19th December 2014 @ 21:40
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I don’t think gravelpit or Steel will be any less popular than say Coalplant or swiftwater. Not actually sure of the rotation currently, no harm in putting either map in but generally they’re not very good for pickups because of the extra teamwork aspect involved….people don’t realise pugs are for fucking about anyway, same amount of teamwork and focus should be used for any other maps (if the teams were actually any good) just Steel + Gpit takes a different approach to tactics and working together.
No harm in putting them in, seeing if they fill and if not, removing them. Give them a week to trial and error.
Quoted from Hildreth
people don’t realise pugs are for fucking about anyway
This is why I prefer the spreadsheet. Pickup ends up with teams with massive skill differences and half the players treating it like a pub.
It’s my personal opinion not any statement as tf2pickup admin. But what Emilio said has a really good point, I wish we would have basically two tiers for pickup begginer and advanced or something like that. One open for everyone, second for mid+ players and tryhard basically.
What I would really like to see instead is normal pickups going on with all this skill differencies, add spreadheet mixes basically integrated into site, where you could just set a mix on hour people could browse those mixes, with set up maps and required level. But it would require a lot of work if it would be on pickup site. But I can dream. Also dividing hl games again may lead to something that happened in NA, they had open pickups, and gold+ pickups and it ended the way that any of them couldn’t just fill up.
Last edited by Hajdzik,
Your suggestion is a neat idea imo Hajdzik, but as you said, I doubt those would really fill up. It’s already an issue with pickups at the moment where only a few per day are played, and there’s never two HL pickups at the same time (ie as soon as one pickup starts, 2-3 people add up for the next one, and then they have to wait for the previous one to finish so that the influx of those players will make the thing fill up).
With that in mind, I would expect that splitting the pickups would either result in no pickups whatsoever, or the high tier ones being played and the scrubs like me in low tier would just be added up all day, hoping beyond hope that someone, someday, is going to make it start. This might still be what you want, as you’re filtering out the less skilled players somewhat, but since they don’t get to play anyway you might as well just make it a requirement, at that point.
I can see how us inexperienced players can kind of ruin the experience for more experienced players, but most of us (or at least me personally) should be quite ready to take some feedback and try to do better based on that. This, to me, seems preferable over risking HL pickups dying out once again. If I recall correctly, it took quite a bit of effort to get people regularly active in the first place, so after a period of no or very few pickups due to a split player pool, it might die out again altogether.
And that would be quite a shame, imo!
The servers were really bad earlier today. Simrai doing a really shit job.
It would be great to integrate invite only pugs, for Prem/High only but problem is so few people pug for 9v9, it would be impossible to fill the open one, leaving it excluded.
Quoted from Hildreth
It would be great to integrate invite only pugs, for Prem/High only but problem is so few people pug for 9v9, it would be impossible to fill the open one, leaving it excluded.
You don’t have to exclude them, you can just find a way of giving preference to more experienced players like was done on the spreadsheet. TF2Center already exists for low level HL games, there currently isn’t a place for higher level games right now as pickups are often decided by one team having an open demo or medic and the other team having prem/high players which is a big part of the reason people just mess around in pickups (why even try to play properly when the game is not going to be competitive anyway due to large skill differences between teams and players on the same team).
For now we will use other servers for pickups. My own decision and I will try to keep it up today. Simrai HL servers are unplayable.
Last edited by Hajdzik,
Quoted from Toast
[…]
There is harm though. Why add a map, that only will accomplish the pickup not filling, and the players having to call an admin in to change it. The map is pointless for pickups, because it requires teamwork to be fun, which it won’t be. The majority of players on pickup aren’t joining because they want to play those maps. They want to play normal maps. They won’t fill either; DONT add them, I beg you Hajdzik!
The pickup map pool is random exactly to avoid personal preferences and “force” players to practise every kind of map otherwise we would be playing bad/process or badwater/upward 99% of the time, even so it can be changed depending on the circumstances (if its not an high activity time and pickups are failing to fill for example) and in that case I try to change maps as I have done numerous times before.
Quoted from Toast
And for the record; HOW DESPERATE would you need to be, if you headed on TF2pickup to practice maps like gpit and steel?
With that reasoning gpit and steel would have been removed from the league map pool a long time ago.
Quoted from EmilioEstevez
[…]
You don’t have to exclude them, you can just find a way of giving preference to more experienced players like was done on the spreadsheet. TF2Center already exists for low level HL games, there currently isn’t a place for higher level games right now as pickups are often decided by one team having an open demo or medic and the other team having prem/high players which is a big part of the reason people just mess around in pickups (why even try to play properly when the game is not going to be competitive anyway due to large skill differences between teams and players on the same team).
Why play at all if you’re intending to fuck around? That’s ridiculous.
It’s very clear on more than one place in the site that tf2pickup is not the place to learn competitive tf2, we try to keep the skill level of pickups decent enough. And I can understand ppl fuckin around in 1-2 am pickups when everyone’s giving in and just having a bit of mindless fun but to add up to a pickup to mess around and use the teams as excuse is not ok.
The pickup balancing algorithm is not perfect (I dont think it has actually been updated with Jon’s latest work in tf2playerrankings) but it’s something and it’s what we have at the moment, you can’t have the cake and eat it too.
I would love if we could have an improved balanced algorithm and different pickup skill tiers integrated into the site but that’s not possible atm, so we have to make the most with what we have.
Quoted from Kaneco
[…]
Why play at all if you’re intending to fuck around? That’s ridiculous.It’s very clear on more than one place in the site that tf2pickup is not the place to learn competitive tf2, we try to keep the skill level of pickups decent enough. And I can understand ppl fuckin around in 1-2 am pickups when everyone’s giving in and just having a bit of mindless fun but to add up to a pickup to mess around and use the teams as excuse is not ok.
Yet people fuck around every single pickup, the games are always unbalanced and so nobody wants to tryhard as why should they actually care about playing properly when they’re gonna get shit on because of their open demoman anyway. If its not somebody playing huntsman sniper, there’s a aggro engi on defence or a caber demo/demoknight or rocket jumper solly or a pyro refusing to even attempt to do pyro stuff and just go for trick flareshots (which they always miss). Every pickup feels like it has one of these or more.
It’s also not uncommon to have players who have 0 comp experience (some don’t even have mumble installed) adding up and trying to play medic (probably because it’s always the class with open slots).
The level of play is nowhere near what the spreadsheet used to provide, which is a shame.
Last edited by EmilioEstevez,
I really try to check everyone added for pickup before it starts, but I as admin don’t have tools to remove someone from lobby, usually I can talk out the new people from playing. For now it’s just mosly me dealing with HL stuff.
Quoted from Hajdzik
I really try to check everyone added for pickup before it starts, but I as admin don’t have tools to remove someone from lobby, usually I can talk out the new people from playing. For now it’s just mosly me dealing with HL stuff.
Actually you can, I added you for the commands.
Quoted from EmilioEstevez
[…]
Yet people fuck around every single pickup, the games are always unbalanced and so nobody wants to tryhard as why should they actually care about playing properly when they’re gonna get shit on because of their open demoman anyway. If its not somebody playing huntsman sniper, there’s a aggro engi on defence or a caber demo/demoknight or rocket jumper solly or a pyro refusing to even attempt to do pyro stuff and just go for trick flareshots (which they always miss). Every pickup feels like it has one of these or more.
It’s also not uncommon to have players who have 0 comp experience (some don’t even have mumble installed) adding up and trying to play medic (probably because it’s always the class with open slots).The level of play is nowhere near what the spreadsheet used to provide, which is a shame.
I play mostly 6s pickups and I do ban players that fuck around but I can’t really speak for HL pickups but there’s a report system for a reason and if you report people for trolling/griefing they will get banned. Every admins check reports regularly so there’s really not an excuse for that unless you don’t actively report people who fuck around.
I think Emilio has just different view on fucking arround, he thinks that Hl pickups should have similar level to high level spreadsheet mixes and that would mean cutting out mid level players. Also people use pickups to play different styles, trying new things.
http://logs.tf/784549?highlight=76561198055729204
I really don’t think that baning people who play regularly is a good thing. I wouldn’t ban Hartz for using hunstan in this pickup, he has still done a lot of job and I see him adding often playing medic which makes a lot of pickups happen. Highlander as a mode itself is more casual. I really can’t see how we should administrate HL pickups so Emilio would be pleased. Can’t satisfy everyone unfortunately and sadly TF2Pickup.net doesn’t offer anything that emilio would like.
Of course it’s not personal, I like Emilio and understand his point.
Last edited by Hajdzik,
My biggest problem with this site is how terrible the servers are, seriously, idk if the 6s servers are any better, but the HL servers are disgustingly bad, the amount of times the server will just stop working for a few seconds mid-game is terrible, perhaps a different server host is needed?
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