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Quoted from Kop

There has been plenty of advertisement towards esl allowed on etf2l.org in forums, replies to newsposts etc.

We are busy enough working on S9 and other projects to worry about other leagues which is the exact reason we put these advertisement forums here.

No offence, but that’s really dumb. Really, really dumb. Are you honestly saying you can’t see the difference between something being on the front page and being hidden away in the corner of a page that 90% of site visitors don’t go to in the first place? The only alternative to this is that my guess about egos was spot on, and that ETF2L is somehow threatened by ESL and missing the greater point that what is good for TF2 is good for everyone involved.

WHATEVER you think about ESL’s rulesets, admins, advocates, etc there is nothing in amongst all that which changes the fact ESL provides something that ETF2L cannot – that being a place to draw attention to TF2 in a way that convenes with the rest of the european eSports community. Sure, TF2 probably will never be a big e-sport, but there are several small and very realistic steps that it can progress to that result in a far more exciting scene. This only serves to benefit ETF2L as whatever ESL becomes as a league, ETF2L will always be the community of european TF2 – ETF2L itself has proven that that is what it strives to be as the only alternative is to cater to the pro scene which the ruleset categorically states is not the admins desire.

The most impotant part of being the centre for the community is doing everything within reasonable possibility to promote TF2. The majority of ETF2L visitors do not visit other sites, nor do they delve particularly deep into the ETF2L site, so their entire concept of what competitive TF2 is boils down to what they see on the front page. It’s obvious there is greater value in ETF2L than it merely being a league, but at the moment ETF2L seems to wrapped up in it’s ego to recognize these facts, and see ESL as just another way of promoting TF2. The popularity of each league is mutually inclusive, what benefits one benefits the other. This is pretty obvious seeing as despite most premiership teams no longer playing here, you still see people from YYT, dignitas, PwR posting here. Any new players that come as a result of successful ESL campaigns would surely find their way to ETF2L’s forums if they become particularly involved, or to take part if they enjoy multiple formats of play (as I believe the majority do).

Your comment about not having the time to spend on doing such advertisement was completely ridiculous. You must be joking when you say there is no one who can take 5 minutes to type a paragraph or 2 and paste an image in there and hit send. Give me a fucking break, this resistance is down to a contest of egos and nothing else.

How did the “We need a newspost at ETF2L to promote ESL” discussion come up, did I miss something? ETF2L admins have too big egos because they do not want to put effort in writing a newspost to promote ESL?

Quoted from kaidus

[…]
lots of text

I’m pretty sure we have promoted some LANs and the ESH 1000 Euro cup between seeding and creating the season, where some premier teams openly complained and claimed to boycott the cup or made digs at it on their website, which I’m sure is the worst way to get sponsors and lower teams enthusiastic about such cups. Back in the UKeSa days tf2 got lots of signups trough positivity and community effort (the late newspost hardly had influence), you could try to get that positive atmosphere again but instead the campaign seems to be focussed on negativity.

I have no idea what you are on about, you’re certainly not helping the quality and purpose of this topic.

imo easy choice:

a)promote tf2 by joining esl and see ~400 teams in there -> get more tournaments and more money in for the game from esl (also possible more bigger lans for tf2 as other communities can see the numbers in tf2 as well)

b) see tf2 wither and die and continue playing in etf2l which no one outside of tf2 has never heard of

I would prolly pick that a) option but maybe it’s just me.

Quoted from Mike

[…]

wrong

Explain.

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]
Yes, but there is no incentive for the lower divs to join. They see it as a bad league, that offers them nothing. These are the same ppl who don’t go to LANs and don’t get prize money.

What happens when they learn to play?

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]
As is said above, you get ppl to join a league by having a good community and a good website. If you think this is isn’t how it should work, tough, it is. Instead, you insult the league that these ppl care about and act like dicks, flaming those who support etf2l and its ruleset, you have no interest in helping tf2 grow, otherwise you would have thought about the problem. Instead you want your view to be correct.

I guess the league insulted the players who made this league. Who made this community, helped it to grow by spending time to making news, new sites, configs, huds, community lans and such.

I’ve seen this happen in other fortress games where the community stays in this league till the end (qwtf, etf). This is the first fortress game where i’ve seen mgo’s, money and opportunity to get this game in a league such as esl. I hate to see it being wasted like this as I know how it will end when it continues this way.

But I guess all the top players just hate this game and want to see it dead asap.

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]

First the majority of players never will, most players will stay below div 3, hence why there is a decreasing number of teams as you go up the divs.

Secondly, the league did not ‘insult’ the players. They made rules that they didn’t agree with, there are also lower div ppl who have been around for just as long, 9m are a great example. Also those who have made configs, and wrote articles are also supporters of etf2l. I am a Div 4 shitter, yet I am trying very hard to promote this game. TBH I would much rather a nice community that is fun to play in, than more LANs. Furthermore I am pointing out that you and the Prem ppl are going about this in completely the wrong way, I am a believe in social economics, ppl need incentives to do things. Atm ESL offers most people nothing as the things it will bring, more LANs etc, having no effect on them.

Lastly, I did not say they hate the game, I am confident in saying that they think what they are doing is best. I am merely pointing out they are incorrect.

I am merely pointing out you are incorrect. League has been spitting on the top players for few seasons already, guess you didnt know that as only now it came to point where the players/teams decided it’s enough. TBH I rather have lans and growing community driven by those lans (usually these things go hand in hand) than slowly dieing game where it comes to a point that players cant come up with a new strategies/exploits on their own and have to use public unlocks as excuse to get something going on in the playing field.