Highlander Season 19 Preseason One Night Cup

Date June 30, 2019

etf2l-logo-banner_small

With Season 18 wrapped up, it is time to move forward to Season 19! This one night cup will focus on testing 3 maps and a new whitelist!

>>>Signup now!<<<

Whitelist changes:

  • Banned the Wrangler
  • Banned the Fists of Steel (due to an uber building bug)

The whitelist for this cup can be found here.

Maps:

These maps are included for testing purposes, but have the potential to replace maps in the current pool! The cup feedback thread is located here.

Each tier is divided into round robin groups of four teams meaning there could be multiple groups for each tier. Teams that sign up sooner will be prioritized in getting a spot in the cup, so do not wait until the last minute to sign up! Keep in mind that there will not be any elimination rounds for this cup!

  • Signups close: July 6th at 21:00 CEST
  • Group stage round 1: July 7th 19:00 CEST – cp_propaganda_b16
  • Group stage round 2: July 7th 20:00 CEST – koth_clearcut_b10a
  • Group stage round 3: July 7th 21:00 CEST – pl_badwater

59 Comments

  1. Morgan: NDF - hlpugs said:

    propaganda HL

    ?

  2. Adje: ASS - Lucrosa said:

    wrangler ban POG

    (Probably should’ve included a payload map to test this change for good measure, but I’m sure not complaining)

  3. hondjo: LvG - ᵍaₑtᵃ said:

    nice payload maps ^^

  4. TBourdon: ᵧaᴸʟₐʜ - ᵍaₑtᵃ said:

    ban mini sentries too tyvm

  5. sek: ⎝⎠ ⧹⧸⧹⧸ ⎝⎠ - SDCK said:

    engineer is now completely useless LUL

  6. Cap Fordo: WH - BGT said:

    Lol, no one payload map…

  7. Nightmare said:

    Ban detonator aswell and then we can finally have a good season

  8. Clark: kiolox - SDCK said:

    I find it very strange that the decision to test a wrangler ban has been made by admins alone based on theirs/their friends’ personal biases, even if it’s just for a pre-season cup – it’s so out of the blue and uncalled for. I may be wrong, but I believe that every admin decision should be a reflection of what the majority desires, not what a few people sitting in mumble late at night after pugs complaining to AlesKee desire.

    Of course, it’s also possible the decision’s been made after receiving a large amount of complaints from players across the entire league, which would then prompt admins to gather extensive feedback from prem/high players which would afterwards conclude it is possible wrangler is OP and therefore should be banned for a pre-season cup for testing – personally I’d have zero problems with that approach, would totally respect it.

    But somehow I doubt any of these things happened, because 1. I’ve only ever heard some complaints about the wrangler, mostly from players new to competitive highlander & 2. neither me nor any of my teammates had been contacted for their opinions regarding the potential ban.

    It’s weird either way, and I hope the post-cup feedback will prove that because the last thing this gamemode needs is banning the single weapon that makes the engie class even semi-matter.

  9. sun: $$$ said:

    What Clark said yeah ^
    also I don’t think koth/5cp gamemodes are best at testing the wrangler ban

  10. Lightclaw: урот - kiti said:

    How come milk is banned but spycicle is not?
    Also why are you banning wrangler? Engineer literally does nothing aside from being annoying on koth maps so you want him to make him the same on payload maps.

  11. Meaff: урот - kiti said:

    So I will be just sitting with rescue ranger aiming at my sentry and waiting until somebody comes up at it, fucking excellent gameplay. Also taking in mind that overall skill level of players and teams will descend, because the skill ceiling for all classes will be lower without the wrangler

  12. MatTj: ᵧaᴸʟₐʜ - ᵍaₑtᵃ said:

    Only maps where the wrangler is a major nuisance are badwater 3rd and coalplant. so why not simply upgrade to v12 (or change to vigil pls c: ) so that the sentry is less of a problem, and swap coalplant for another koth map where wrangler doesnt dominate the entire point for free?

  13. neon: MARKO - Tissi said:

    i dont supoort wrengler ban it make me feel like shit whene enmy can push forward

  14. Villdjack: (twisted) - 800dpm - S-O said:

    i dont supoort wrengler ban it make me feel like shit whene enmy can push forward

  15. FTH: pizza said:

    look at you weak engi mains you cant lift a shotgun XDD ofc you gonna start crying when the wrangler is banned lol none of you are chad engis like me and meaff haha LOL bigsomke7109 is a better engi than all of you he can atleast aim with a shotgun and a pistol and have more spy kills and frags than you have in Adje’s spreadsheet(good spreadsheet tbh check it out)….pathetic….

  16. TBourdon: ᵧaᴸʟₐʜ - ᵍaₑtᵃ said:

    ^ this tbh

  17. STiNGHAN: :| said:

    the reason of banning wrangler is badwater 3rd. In this case, I’d like to ask why we keep badwater in this rotation? I know its classic HL map but look at 6s and badlands. Pepole were tried of it so we are, think about it

  18. Sketis: $$$ said:

    rip uncle danes

  19. CazaroC: MONSOON - SDCK said:

    looks like we have to ban the wrangler cuz people are disable and cant play with their teammates :^)

  20. amyzie: APE - EAFD said:

    Should probably actually have a Payload map to test wrangler ban.

  21. magistr: funny said:

    can we ban engineer class already?

  22. [☁]Emiel: 124 - THICC said:

    Hlpugs circle jerk trying to ban the wrangler ╚(ಠ_ಠ)=┐

  23. [☁]Emiel: 124 - THICC said:

    i think the complaining stems purely from people thinking the meta has gotten stale
    that would just be fixed
    by introducing 2/3 new maps this season
    or bringing back some maps

    Mainly badwater. So why arent we testing a payload map??

  24. Rambosaur: Lucrosa said:

    I for one am excited for the wrangler ban. It would bring a new dynamic to the current meta played in payload. Carrying around ’11 hard science PhDs’, I’m sure one could get a bit more creative than “sitting with rescue ranger aiming at my sentry and waiting until somebody comes up at it”. However this makes koth & cp a little more bland given the restricted secondary weapon options. So maybe a middle ground would be to ban the rescue ranger (as trialled in hlpugs), which gives buildings a bit less survivability whilest allowing for some more creativity. A new payload map would be very welcome too (vigil?). Or I can just wave around my liver spotted fists in anger to any change ever B-)

  25. Adje: ASS - Lucrosa said:

    I’ve never really seen the current short circuit with the anime ball being used at all so I have literally no clue how bad/good is, but maybe it’d be worthwhile to have that as another secondary engie unlock for this cup?

    Also Badwater as a whole is garbage (including all the pro versions), the Wrangler is just a contributing factor on that map lol. I personally find the Wrangler a lot more annoying on the current koth maps ever since Engineers run perma lvl 3s in shutter on Coalplant and to a lesser extent in banana on Warmtic. Most Engineers don’t really understand how to properly pull it off, let alone have their team play around it, but if you’ve played against an Engineer like spamfest on that map you really can’t argue that shutter spot isn’t just plain stupid. Good examples of games where that weapon had a ridiculous amount of impact were the S17 prem finals and to a lesser extent the Prolander finals of Season 5 in RGL.

  26. [☁]Emiel: 124 - THICC said:

    If the goal of the wrangler ban is to tryand change the meta. Than I agree with Adje that we should unban the short circuit for the cup to see how it stacks up in current meta. (probably still to good but we can atleast try especially since wrangler might get banned)

  27. sun: $$$ said:

    short circuit is less spammable nowadays but it’s alot easier to use so that’s not an option either
    you can literally sit on cart and just remove every projectile comming your way.
    removing warmtic alone (and replacing it with something like propaganda) will make the wrangler feel less ”op”
    another option would be to ban wrangler on koth only and just have it unbanned on pl/attack defense however admins didn’t want to play with 2 whitlists ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  28. MatTj: ᵧaᴸʟₐʜ - ᵍaₑtᵃ said:

    tldr -badwater +vigil yes ok thanks

  29. Doom: Bags - :| said:

    Honestly, you clueless people should stop ruining highlander. Who the hell is responsible for this decision and have they ever played this game?

    Go ahead and ban gunslinger while you’re at it.

    Back in the days wrangler was wayy more powerful, you could tank a heavy shooting at it point blank. And it wasn’t banned. People played around it, sentries went down, engineers died and payload moved.

    If you ban wrangler at least unban short circuit. How am I even supposed to defend my sentry against coordinated spam now?

  30. Doom: Bags - :| said:

    On the other hand, at least I can now run minis def lmao

  31. Cronk: ︻芫═一☺ - Lucrosa said:

    shit cup
    shit admins
    bring back moist

  32. AlesKee: (League Admin) - KNOPPER - CHIMP said:

    Originally we had a payload map in the cup, but found out that it had some gamebreaking bugs in it, so I added another koth map as a late replacement.

    Since the community wants to test the wrangler ban on a payload map, an existing payload map is the best option. Badwater has been added instead of synthetic for this reason.

  33. Cap Fordo: WH - BGT said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be pl_snowycoast_pro or pl_corrode_rc2…

  34. Cap Fordo: WH - BGT said:

    If u found bug, why u not wrote message to map creator about this? He will fix that.

  35. AlesKee: (League Admin) - KNOPPER - CHIMP said:

    Because the map has not been updated since may 2018, and people have commented their found bugs in august and december of 2018.

    Clearcut and Propaganda are both being actively worked on, which is why we prefer them.

  36. Cap Fordo: WH - BGT said:

    But right now made new pro map for leagues – pl_snowycoast_pro. This map actively worked on too…

  37. proky: KNOPPER - SDCK said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be pl_upward_pro or pl_vigl_rc5…

  38. bkts: yerbaby - LFC said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be pl_snowycoast_pro or pl_corrode_rc2…

  39. pedthrow: CBT - CHIMP said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be pl_snowycoast_pro or pl_corrode_rc2…

  40. Included_Middle: nufcZONE said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be cp_gravelpit_pro

  41. frenzik: bzR said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be pl_snowycoast_pro or pl_corrode_rc2…

  42. GR1M: notRC said:

    Lol, stock badwater… It is preseason cup? Lol. I thought will be ctf_2fort or ctf_turbine_pro_rc5_al

  43. 4hp: pHy - TBC said:

    Test short circuit imo. It’s only somewhat aggravating if the engie is next to a cart or dispenser. Plus if wrangler gets banned (which I’m mostly against) it might open some interesting possibilities for defending level 3 guns

  44. 31KANG: PLAKET - pizza said:

    wrangler ban is the most intelligent ban ever. DEBATE ME

  45. kreumat: SeG said:

    i think engi dont need secondary weapon he already have 4 more!!!!!

  46. Buck824: BCBB - WCS said:

    Ok lets start putting actual numbers to the opinions on the The Wrangler people. Personally I think it is ridiculous to ban an item because it is overpowered in like 1 single point on 1 single map. But apparently moaners gonna moan.

    HERE IS A STRAWPOLL:

    https://strawpoll.com/g6dd8hxa

  47. Included_Middle: nufcZONE said:

    Why would you share all those negative opinions about banning the wrangler then post a strawpoll, basically a loaded question at that point. Also, there is little point having a strawpoll before testing the ban in the cup anyway, since very few people will have played in games with the weapon banned.

  48. Adje: ASS - Lucrosa said:

    Think it’d be better to have an actual vote similar to what happened to Detonator and Spy-cicle on ETF2L, a random strawpoll really doesn’t mean anything and could easily be messed with too.

    I feel like ‘is the Wrangler OP’ isn’t the right question to ask here by the way. If you are saying that a weapon that increases the effective health of the sentry by tripling it and also gives the Engineer full manual control over his sentry (with built-in aim assist) at any range is a fair “””sidegrade””” to the pistol, I don’t know what to say. The only aspect of it that really requires any mechanical skill is the jumping aspect: I really liked watching spamfest do all sorts of creative jumps like jumping on top of Badwater 3rd as Engineer. But just about every Engineer I’ve ever talked to, bar a few exceptions, has told me that the Wrangler is very much overpowered to some degree mainly regarding the shield, but they also mention immediately after that Engineer would be literally useless without it and that it’s a ‘necessary evil’.

    So the way I see it, the real question is how relevant Engineer would be in Highlander without it, which is also why I’m in favor of trying out the Short Circuit. Sure, you can spam it if you stay on a payload cart, dispenser or a spawn door (spamming it through Steel B spawn comes to mind) but that honestly sounds like nothing compared to tripling the effective health by pressing a button on your keyboard, plus the Engineer has to actually shoot at the incoming projectiles and the anime ball doesn’t do nearly as much damage. It’s the equivalent of how the pre-nerf Dead Ringer also gave Spies a get-out-of-jail free card by pressing right click, with the option to do it whenever they wanted because of an abundance of ammo on most payload maps. The time and effort spent into actually trying to kill a Spy severely outweighed the amount of effort on the Spy’s end (pressing a button). The Engineer is kind of in the same boat, the effort it takes for the Engineer to apply that amount of damage resistance to his sentry really does not outweigh the amount of effort it takes for a team to coordinate a crapload of damage on it, hopefully without the Pyro reflecting every projectile fired at it (or removing the sapper with a weapon that does it quicker than the Engineer himself is able to) and the Engineer not being able to outheal it. Even if people go out of their way to run unlocks that should theoretically counter it like Direct Hit, Loch ‘n Load or the Enforcer (yes, that’s a weapon), the Engineer can still outheal it unless you use a mix of all of these at the same time. For reference, even if you fired 5 Direct Hit rockets at the sentry, it still would not die.

    The difference between Dead Ringer and Wrangler is that Valve has recognized there were issues with the Dead Ringer and has tried to balance the unlock (multiple times), but with the lack of updates I think there’s no point in being optimistic that the Wrangler will get a slight nerf (one that does something substantial about the damage resistance) to the resistance applied in the near future.

    But yeah, I would have to agree with Middle here, there is no point really having any sort of conversation until after the cup. If the consensus is that Engineer is borderline unplayable without the Wrangler, so be it. My opinion on the weapon won’t change but if people think keeping it in is healthier for the scene then I guess that’s cool. If there’s a vote like what was done with Detonator/Spy-cicle last season, even better. But let’s please not have this whole “bro just shoot it” and “people are just moanbags” attitude as it doesn’t incentivize healthy discussion. I consider stuff like “it was fine back in the day but now it’s a problem stop complaining” to be non-arguments. You could argue the problem is map-specific and point your finger towards Badwater, but look at any Prem (Qualifiers) game from the past couple of seasons and you’ll see stuff like laser tag battles on Coalplant, sentries in the banana on Warmtic, people parking the bus in Big Door on Gullywash after having a round advantage with a level 3 wrangled sentry etc.

  49. proky: KNOPPER - SDCK said:

    #Buck4ETF2LAdmin

  50. AustinN: KNOPPER - Lucrosa said:

    Just shoot the sentry 4head

  51. Nightmare said:

    spies should just run the enforcer but only a select few have the brain capacity to do so.

  52. Doom: Bags - :| said:

    @Adje
    Honestly, if you judge wrangler as compared to the pistol on defense I agree it seems to completely outperform pistol. But you could also judge minisentries on viaduct as compared to level 3s and call gunslinger overpowered, “+25hp and fast building autoaim wtf”… Saying an unlock is overpowered because there are situations in which you always want to use it is idiotic. The way I see it, wrangler makes the class, it could literally be a base weapon instead of pistol. It is what makes engineer in highlander what he is, the same way gunboats make roamer what he is.

    If engineer wasnt allowed to use wrangler, sentries just wouldnt live. I dont think you realize how easy to is to coordinate attacks. Even wranglered sentries go down with a sap at the right time. It takes coordination and skill to take down a sentry, I don’t see how is that bad.

    You could also always shoot the engineer. Engineer are not invincible, and with the rr nerf we need to be close to the sentry during a push.

    I don’t understand. Engineer went from minisentry nerf, wrangler nerf, rescue ranger nerf, short circuit buff then nerf. And now that engineer is at weakest ever you want to further remove weapons from his aresenal.

  53. Erupo89: TBC said:

    Can you please ban eureka effect? That teleport thing is OP.

  54. Clark: kiolox - SDCK said:

    @Adje, “If the consensus is that Engineer is borderline unplayable without the Wrangler, so be it.”

    It is as playable as a medic without a crossbow. Or, to use Doom’s example, a soldier without the gunboats.

    Only here’s the thing. Even if you remove all unlocks for all classes, and let Engineer use any of his unlocks he will still be the most powerless class in highlander. It isn’t about what’s playable or not, but about what makes an impact and what doesn’t. Without the Wrangler on payload defense, not only the meta of how to defend payload will change, but the whole idea of what engie’s role entails will be completely different.

    Un-wrangled sentries go down in a matter of milliseconds, so unless you’re willing to just stand afk and shoot your sentry with RR there will just be no point in running lvl3’s, better just drop a mini somewhere noone will look and hope some poor bastard walks past it on low hp. What should the engie himself do though? Run around and shoot people, I guess. You can even take Frontier Justice if you’re feeling extra-cheeky.

    God forbid, somebody ever gets a 4k with FJ’s kritz and it’s caught on stream, people will start calling for it to get banned as well.

  55. Doom: Bags - :| said:

    just as you say that bloodis gets it lol

  56. magistr: funny said:

    now i can only sap teles :(

  57. Amadeus: 124 - -Xe- said:

    I liked the new maps. Propaganda is much more fun than Gullywash. And the koth map seemed alright too. It’s a bit like Product, but with more usable flanks.

    Wrangler is OP but in the same way as Crossbow. Highlander needs it to have better games. A nerf by Valve might be in order but banning it would damage the quality of Highlander games. I would expect a Gunslinger meta where Engie becomes a second Scout that poops out disposable buildings when convenient. It would destroy the unique role of the class in Highlander.

  58. Wild_Piggie: KNOPPER - CHIMP said:

    Hoes mad

  59. Georgebaii said:

    lolhl

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.