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Quoted from Popcorp

Ok lets say you put sentry in that place like in video, engie is left behind of the team, far ahead from Medic, he sits behind sentry for example, and now lets say usual Sentry spot ( near Med ammo pack ), lets say Spy with Ambassador is sitting there and he headshots Engie, what Engie is going to do? If he decides to just take a position where Spy won’t be able to headshot him, it makes him visible for Sniper, who can instead of Headshotting, easily Bodyshot an Engie. Spy WILL be a Major distraction for an Engie, if you send Scout to deal with a Spy, your flank will be weakened

And Wrangler won’t help to kill that Spy from far distance, because of recent Wrangler accuracy nerf and just distance, especially if you gonna use wrangler to shoot at someone who is on 2nd point, it will be useless, you will do like Small amount of damage and alot of missed bullets

In other words, Spy and Sniper/Maybe Solly too coordination and That sentry spot is useless, and dont forget that Demo can simply Sticky jump on sentry and destroy it or kill engie, or both

Now lets think about combo, Demoman, as someone said in Reddit, its easy to sacrifice a player, or a scout with Bonk or just a DR spy with Friendly Disguise, or even Engie with Short circuit and stickies are gone, BLU Combo pushes in and thats it for RED Combo

“The Lv3 is also up and has a bunch of area denial.” – From who? in that spot it doesnt deny anyone, wrangler got nerfed now it’s less accurate on great distances

“A spy should not be able to pick you off in the shack as there’s one way to get you and that is to uncloak early” – doesn’t prevent good spies from Headshotting you from Last point, near stairs

My opinion: its not a good idea, you can try it in Mixes or with your own team, against a decent team ofc, if it will work, then i was wrong, but until then, i say No to this

there really isn’t a deal with twitching A-D and you see the spy before he has the time to line up his shot
also are you saying it’s useless to try and kill the spy with wrangler because of the aim nerf? don’t you main scout and shouldn’t more accurate tracking be the most insiginficant problem?

the demo wont have the time to jump the sentry because you can still wrangle against him and he will probably get called or picked off earlier

“The Lv3 is also up and has a bunch of area denial.” – From who? in that spot it doesnt deny anyone, wrangler got nerfed now it’s less accurate on great distances

again nothing to mention about wrangler accuracy or whatever, the sentry creates a choke point inside the house which forces the combo earlier and makes no possible sightline for the sniper unless you can deal with recoil as you take damage every 0,12 seconds

Quoted from quintosh

[…]

there really isn’t a deal with twitching A-D and you see the spy before he has the time to line up his shot
also are you saying it’s useless to try and kill the spy with wrangler because of the aim nerf? don’t you main scout and shouldn’t more accurate tracking be the most insiginficant problem?

the demo wont have the time to jump the sentry because you can still wrangle against him and he will probably get called or picked off earlier

[…]
again nothing to mention about wrangler accuracy or whatever, the sentry creates a choke point inside the house which forces the combo earlier and makes no possible sightline for the sniper unless you can deal with recoil as you take damage every 0,12 seconds

Well, about Spy, Soldier can provide a good distraction, as i said: Coordination, Solly with DH spamming sentry and Spy has time to aim, good amby spies dont need alot of time to aim for a head

About Demo, easily coordinated with a Spy too, Spy saps sentry, Demo jumps and KABOOOM

EDIT: So unless Engie has a Pybro, its very easy to coordinate and destroy sentry nest

well, if you guys try it in a Mix/Scrim, record it and upload it on youtube, i would enjoy watching that strat to work/fail :p

We need some Fun cup or something where Engie cant use standard sentry spots, just like with No wrangler Cup that was before

Stickys, how do I pass them?

Quoted from rat

You guys keep mentioning high divs but keep assuming the other team is gonna come in one by one or that 1 sticky trap can hold back 9 people.

its not about going in one by one it’s about understanding how to stay alive and falling back without looking for more frags

Quoted from Setlet

I think it would have been more fun to see a video of this being successful (you say you tried it and FAILED). There it could have been possible to see where it’s strong and where it lacks. Theorycrafting in TF2 is pretty stupid.

Yeah theorycrafting isn’t the best thing, however having an actual plan/strategy going into a point beyond the basics is a good thing, but like every proposed defence there is always a counter, this upward third hold sounds remarkably similar to a hold done by a team I played in North America named Stoic, it was a pretty strong hold but like a lot of holds you can break them when you work yourself a kill / some ground / good uber exchange or just individual mistakes/brilliance.

Also the pace of Upward’s, you’d need to soft retreat from 2nd to do this hold, most teams tend not to.

Quoted from Setlet

I think it would have been more fun to see a video of this being successful (you say you tried it and FAILED). There it could have been possible to see where it’s strong and where it lacks. Theorycrafting in TF2 is pretty stupid.

exactly

Quoted from quintosh

[…]

the counter to it would be kritz from bridge, the short circuit mini tactic sounds promising too (its posted on reddit)

Theorycrafting….

You can try it but it’s execution that counts, the basics of winning TF2 games and HL games is to do the basics very well.

Execute clean pushes by which you minimilize damage taken, gain ground before being forced to use uber in order to gain ground, use your uber in the best position, only use it on players that can be useful in the right positions….etc

Basics really, the better teams will execute their pushes more cleanly and it opens oppurtunities up. It relies on people being on the same wavelength and knowing their roles in the team, an example I see in Silver/Steel games is too many people being multi-ubered, medics allowing players to take shedload of damage before ubering, players committing to uber fights where they have no position/health advantage.

More or less every defence/attack fight depends on these factors, obviously you can work in individual play somewhere and factor it into your push, my definition of a good defence is one where you need more than good execution to defeat it, that extra bit of individual class because otherwise you depend on your opponents making a mistake, you’d be surprised how man points are lost just by a medic not flashing uber in time or having too many people to flash…etc