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AV (Alternative Voting)
Created 3rd May 2011 @ 22:50
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AV = alternative vote
FPTP = first past the post
wiki them both.
Quoted from octochris
Are you ignorant enough to think that there is not a great deal of overlap between a great number of parties?
The problem with the diagram is that its either coffee or pub, but thats not how it works. No matter how much overlap there is, there’s always going to be differences, yet the diagram fails to recognise that. If you say the diagram represents policies, then it’s even more pointless and misguiding – the only time the public can vote for policies is through a referendum, and AV affects general elections, in which parties are voted for. A more accurate diagram would be a coffee shop, a wine bar, a pub, a cafe, and a restaurant: yes, they all sell food and drinks; yes, some of the goods they sell overlap, but they are all different types.
Quoted from Wabbeh
[…]
The problem with the diagram is that its either coffee or pub, but thats not how it works. No matter how much overlap there is, there’s always going to be differences, yet the diagram fails to recognise that. If you say the diagram represents policies, then it’s even more pointless and misguiding – the only time the public can vote for policies is through a referendum, and AV affects general elections, in which parties are voted for. A more accurate diagram would be a coffee shop, a wine bar, a pub, a cafe, and a restaurant: yes, they all sell food and drinks; yes, some of the goods they sell overlap, but they are all different types.
I won’t even bother, because it’s clear that you do not understand the core point.
Quoted from Wabbeh
[…]
The problem with the diagram is that its either coffee or pub, but thats not how it works. No matter how much overlap there is, there’s always going to be differences, yet the diagram fails to recognise that. If you say the diagram represents policies, then it’s even more pointless and misguiding – the only time the public can vote for policies is through a referendum, and AV affects general elections, in which parties are voted for. A more accurate diagram would be a coffee shop, a wine bar, a pub, a cafe, and a restaurant: yes, they all sell food and drinks; yes, some of the goods they sell overlap, but they are all different types.
You’re over complicating things.
Think of it like this: the UK population on the whole is of a center-left political persuasion. But the centre left vote is split between different parties (Labour and Lib Dem largely).
Those on the right have realistically only one party to vote for, the conservatives.
Last edited by captain bubblebeard,
Forgive me my utter ignorance in the matter, but I’ve blasted through the topic and got mildly interested in the issue. Putting idealism and preserving status quo aside, if the result of AV might be introducing a parliament accepted by everyone, instead of beloved by half and hated by the other, what’s the deal? What are real disadvantages, where’s the catch?
A couple of points: AV isn’t true proportional representation it’s a slightly less shite way of doing FPtP. Anything you read anywhere about how another election in the UK would have gone under AV is utter bullshit. We don’t know how it would have gone because it wasn’t under AV, which would change the entire campaign process and attitude and the voting pattern for a huge number of people.
Quoted from freshmeatt
Forgive me my utter ignorance in the matter, but I’ve blasted through the topic and got mildly interested in the issue. Putting idealism and preserving status quo aside, if the result of AV might be introducing a parliament accepted by everyone, instead of beloved by half and hated by the other, what’s the deal? What are real disadvantages, where’s the catch?
Well it isn’t necessarily going to do quite that much, it just means that the actual people in power are more likely to truly represent who the country wants in power.
The catch is there are 2 groups of people who for reasons of vested interest, would prefer FPTP.
1) Hardcore Labour and Conservative members. This system makes it a lot harder for these parties to get a full majority, and unfortunately a lot of them have a lot of money to spend on lying to the country about the AV system (see: no2av campaign, which is financially funded by an (ex?)conservative politician).
2) A disappointingly large number of people, either through ignorance or stupidity, genuinely believe that the FPTP system is better.
ETF2L rules say no politics bullshit
lock please
an alternative view on voting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM
(although somewhat targeted at US, but also applies for UK or any other voting for governments)
Quoted from Andee
Just out of interest. What is AV an what is FPTP, and what is the difference? :-)
Just cos I like your hat Andee, this is it basically: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27255580/av-arguments.jpg and for anybody else clueless. I hope you’re all using your vote though >.>
Quoted from CrancK
an alternative view on voting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbBItLemsM
(although somewhat targeted at US, but also applies for UK or any other voting for governments)
Irrelevant to the discussion at hand which is on AV. The merits of voting and democracy itself is another subject.
Quoted from Skyride
[…]
Is that a problem though?
yes
if you want a bunch of no name morons like the green party and bnp or socialist workers or whatever then go right ahead
you’re still throwing your vote away but you feel like you’ve done something
Last edited by the bm man,
Quoted from captain bubblebeard
Think of it like this: the UK population on the whole is of a center-left political persuasion. .
.
lmfao no its fucking not
Last edited by the bm man,
Quoted from the bm man
[…]
lmfao no its fucking not
Sorry I forgot to back up my statement with facts.
Here you go, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/
In the 2010 General Election 36% of the population voted for the conservatives.
52% of the population voted for Labour or LibDem.
Your turn.
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