Forum

Lately I’ve been liking gullywash less and less, which is odd because a few years ago it was my absolute favourite map ever, kinda like how I’ve turned around with the QF, and so like everyone else and the QF, I’ve been idly dreaming up map designs. I’m half interested in just picking up hammer and seeing where things go like I’ve done with a lot of hobbies in the past.

But as an engineer I know design projects are not hobbies. Both involve learning new skills, but a hobby is all about the journey, whilst a design is all about the destination and it’s not worth even starting unless you have a clear goal and good understanding from day 1.

So before I even start trawling through threads like http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=21192 , what makes a good 5cp map? If I feel like I’ve gained a good enough understanding, I might hammer out a beta over the next month or so.

Is it important that the 5 point are roughly along a straight line (not many liked freight)? Must teams be forced to pass near the 2nd point like gran, or not so much, like gully?

I gather having 2nd and last close together, at least relative to forward spawns, are good; is it essential that spawn still be close to last? Does it just need to be one of them? Or either?

What makes a good rollout?

Process seems to be the best map in comp TF2, save maybe badlands (yes, I’m biased), what can I abstract away from those and use?

I like narrow ledges that give you an advantage but are easy to get knocked off (like gran last pipe, like gully has none of), I think they’re good for a map to have. Am I mistaken here?

I could go on all night but I’ll leave it here for now.

a good 5CP map supports different playstyles throughout the map, including flanks. There shouldnt be empty spaces and it shoud employ vertical space a lot. It still needs to be logical in it self, shouldnt have any dead ends or useless parts of the map, and the game should flow from one cap to another automatically. If you need to plaster the map with signs to show the next cp, you’re doing it wrong.

a good map supports every class, not necessarily throughout the whole map, without making any class overpowered on any stage. a good map should make the last easier to defend than the 2nd, and the 2nd than the mid.

a good map is fun to play.

a good map is diverse in itself, but still follows a straight main design to distinguish itself from other maps.

a good map isnt clustered.

…

The position of points (line or S type) has nothing to do with how good map is. Freight sucks only cuz it has last point that can be defended for 30min, same with obscure.

Good map is map that flows well. Also good flow in div3 mix doesnt mean anything, you have to get div1/prem to play it because they will do the kind of stuff in first week that a div3 mix will figure out in few months. Which is why making maps is pain in ass since prem does not test maps (in general) and only when they do is when you can actually figure out if map will make it or not. Well…Maybe in NA you could have more luck, they like new things…

Add shortcuts or positioning tricks in the map, one of the reasons badlands is my favourite map is because there are so many shortcuts etc. (especially on mid).

If sniper can’t be used in mids, you have at least a good start.

Quoted from Setlet

If sniper can’t be used in mids, you have at least a good start.

Remove all maps but granary for s16.

Let’s not design maps around that terrible unlock before it’s fixed.

Also gullywash is the best map ever, fuck badlands and especially process.

In terms of maps I like a fairly challenging rollout (I play demo) where it takes a while to learn but feels satisfying when you get it (i.e. process ramp sliding etc.), not too many retarded sniper sightlines (like process has…), and some open but also some closed in areas.