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Gravelpit Pro Ideas
Created 12th March 2013 @ 21:08
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Yeah so basically Mould and I are making a gravelpit_pro map (next beta will be released) and we’re looking for some ideas.
The main complaint about gravelpit is that it’s too slow so we’re trying to make the map faster. We’re doing this mainly through cap/spawn times and making engineers less viable.
Major changes
– Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
– C point still has the same cap time
– Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it’s confusing)
– Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
Smaller changes
– Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
– Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
– Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
A
– Moved a small ammo pack to the roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
– Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
– Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
B
– Increased the skybox height on B point
– Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
C
– Added small invisible wall to stop heavies getting on the roof behind the point
– Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
Planned Changes
– Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
– Reduce setup time
– Open up the entrances to B from C a bit
Before you give a suggestion, remember that hiding spots give character to a map and should be removed only if they’re very imbalanced
Last edited by Starkie,
I suggest that you remove the skywall on top of the pipe on B point. I mean the pipe in high midair, left side of B (from BLU’s perspective). However I don’t think you should be able to be on the pipe, so make it very slick like the pipes on cp_steel A point. Just give a demoman the possibility to jump over the pipe.
Unless, of course, you already did that when you raised the skybox in B like you said.
Last edited by Setlet,
Quoted from Setlet
I suggest that you remove the skywall on top of the pipe on B point. I mean the pipe in high midair, left side of B (from BLU’s perspective). However I don’t think you should be able to be on the pipe, so make it very slick like the pipes on cp_steel A point. Just give a demoman the possibility to jump over the pipe.
Unless, of course, you already did that when you raised the skybox in B like you said.
Why not remove the pipe altogether?
What about the sticky trap below A exploit? Does it still work? If yes, fix that too altogether? Same with the teleports in RED spawn.
Is this for highlander, 6’s or both?
Quoted from ash
What about the sticky trap below A exploit? Does it still work? If yes, fix that too altogether? Same with the teleports in RED spawn.
AFAIK that was fixed by valve ages ago
Quoted from Setlet
I suggest that you remove the skywall on top of the pipe on B point. I mean the pipe in high midair, left side of B (from BLU’s perspective). However I don’t think you should be able to be on the pipe, so make it very slick like the pipes on cp_steel A point. Just give a demoman the possibility to jump over the pipe.
Unless, of course, you already did that when you raised the skybox in B like you said.
This clipping is still there, interesting idea though but it might make demoman suicides a bit too powerful
Quoted from unu
Is this for highlander, 6’s or both?
6v6
Last edited by Starkie,
Quoted from Starkie
Yeah so basically Mould and I are making a gravelpit_pro map (next beta will be released) and we’re looking for some ideas.
Neat, you got my support.
Quoted from Starkie
The main complaint about gravelpit is that it’s too slow so we’re trying to make the map faster. We’re doing this mainly through cap/spawn times and making engineers less viable.
:( why make the engineer less viable? In my eyes the offclassing possibility of gravelpit is what makes it a great map, remember, we need diversity, not the same old boring stuff… We already have the cookie-cutter class scheme tested and proven to work but what if a map just enables to diversify class usability, the game has 9 classes you know, not 4+sniper…
Quoted from Starkie
Major changes
– Cut the cap time on A & B by half (from 60 to 30 seconds for x1)
– C point still has the same cap time
– Cut the the respawn times for both blue and red (unsure by how much so far as it’s confusing)
Sounds great, dont change the respawn times too drastically tho, maybe a slight bigger disadvantage for who’s defending like on viaduct_pro
Quoted from Starkie
– Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
Didn’t really get what you mean
Quoted from Starkie
Smaller changes
– Got rid of that spot where medics get themselves stuck
great
Quoted from Starkie
– Removed some of the arches in the tunnels out of blue spawn to remove some sticky trap spots
– Stopped stickies being placed inside doors frames
This is a thing I’m really bothered with, why do all pro versions of maps try to remove sticky trap spots? Traps are part of the game, even if they are hidden in door frames you should know better and always keep an eye on everything, badlands is probably the map with more hidden spots for stickies and it’s the one who works best. As a main demo I really don’t like this. Hidden sticky traps (like the wood on granary) just add a few more surprise elements to the game, I don’t consider them bugs, and trying to remove traps spots really hurts the class.
Quoted from Starkie
A
– Moved a small ammo pack to the roof on A to make it harder for engineers to place close sentries
– Clipped stairs to fix the explosion bug
– Changed small healthpack in the AC connector to a medium one with an ammo pack (with the intention of making it easier to watch flanks when holding B)
Really like this, and the idea on the AC connector sounds great, also a great help for last pushes from A.
Quoted from Starkie
B
– Increased the skybox height on B point
Great
Quoted from Starkie
– Added a wall in front of short (between the shed and the wall) to stop medics being picked by snipers [unsure whether this should stay]
Not sure about this, as I said, I feel gravelpit gives new possibility for team strategies, and you shouldn’t hurt the offclassing potential of the map, the medic has more than enough safe spots from snipers.
Quoted from Starkie
– Changed the medium ammopack on B to a small one
What’s the reasoning behind this? Hurt the engineer offclass again? Don’t really like it if that’s the idea.
Quoted from Starkie
C
– Added small invisible wall to stop heavies getting on the roof behind the point
Same as the sniper and engie argument, besides, what can the heavy do from there that he can’t do from other spots?
Quoted from Starkie
– Increased the trigger size on resupply cabinet in red spawn (so you cant touch it and not get ammo)
kewl
Quoted from Starkie
Planned Changes
– Fix the panel on B roof not colliding with rockets/bullets
Sounds cool, wasn’t aware of this.
Quoted from Starkie
Before you give a suggestion, remember that hiding spots give character to a map and should be removed only if they’re very imbalanced
Exactly, as the trap spots and offclass potential of the map which give character to the map as well, and you’re doing the opposite to this with some of the changes above.
This is my input on all the changes.
Besides that I can probably say, put a small ammopack on b roof, I’m thinking about this like on the ultiduo map, which also has the height advantage with the ammopack, and below the point, and it works great.
Quoted from Snyyppis
Reduce setup time
Simple solution to make engineers less viable.
+1
Quoted from Starkie
– Changed the timer style (so instead of starting with 6 minutes and having it increase as you cap points you instead start with 6 minutes and it is unchanged by points capped). This makes it easier to see your time as first attackers
I really like the idea; but I think you will have to make it very hard to defend all three points in 6 minutes, because having the round ended before all points are capped is an indication that the map is too stalematey. You don’t really want to have rounds decided on who capped A/B faster, because 1. it makes it way too easy to attack for the team with the advantage (and is only something they need to have if it’s very well deserved) 2. the decision on whether to leave one or two scouts on A to cap is not where the big plays are made, obviously.
Last edited by ondkaja,
I have to agree with Kaneco here.
Please, leave the Sniper alleys, sticky spots and Heavy/Engineer tactics as they are. They were never the issue on this map, it was more a constant monotonic type of games where you have to cap A and then proceed to B through some hard places to push out effectively. I understand the need to speed up the game, but you are in a danger of making this map less gravelpit-ish. I am all up for making cuts and removing a lot of useless stuff, but eliminating whole tactics is really bad.
I think that both lobbies going from C to B should get bigger, with larger doors for more “breathing room” during pushes. Putting larger health packs as suggested would be another way of helping pushes.
A huge “thank you” from me for doing this. Such a good map, hopefully your updates will bring several more strategies and slightly bring up the pace of the map.
Change the cap/spawn timers and skybox, dont touch the rest. The ideas are good but so is the original map
The issue on this map is that it is so slow, engi heavy whatever slows thf game down, btw nice ideas :)
This sounds great, I totally agree with all the aims stated in the op. For the people complaining, cp_gravelpit will always exist and you can play it as much as you want.
Making engies less viable is definitely worth while. 6 v 6 at the highest level shouldn’t be about playing vs aimbots, it’s stale and slow to play and watch.
I’ll be interested to see how this develops.
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