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Recruitment and new teams.
Created 14th March 2010 @ 10:51
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Most people dont want to be leaders, I guess. Atleast, I dont. I just want to play without all the organising shit, becouse when I tried it with Phail some time ago, it was just annoying…
Quoted from exm
Most people dont want to be leaders, I guess. Atleast, I dont. I just want to play without all the organising shit, becouse when I tried it with Phail some time ago, it was just annoying…
Totally depends on what you prefer obviously, reliable people is always a big plus. Organizing is sometimes a bit annoying, but not that much of a pain imo. I would love to only manage a couple of teams and get players for them without actually playing. :)
I think a feedback system would be very nice tbh, but it’s kinda the same as the current system. Anyone can leave comments, so what difference would it be? Maybe if you split it into two sections, teams that have trialled the person and people just leaving nice comments about playing with the person in the past / saying he’s a nice guy etc. Obviously, you would have to trust that people wouldn’t just go ahead and post in the feedback bit if they hadn’t been in a team that had trialled him but that would still be a neat idea!
Recruitment is nice in theory but in practice…
There are 4 common problems why recruitment section doesnt work.
1. People are overestimating themselves. Like now, in the recruitment area and sorting on mid, you see masther and matu at the first results. One of them has 1.5 year mid experience the other hasnt even joined a low clan for more as 15 days.
2. People that arent teamplayers and cant take criticism. To become better you need to learn from eachother and sometimes sacrifice for the greater goods or fall back to help your teammates. Enough people that only understand the game on deathmatch level. And arent prepared to listen to others.
3. People that are assholes and unreliable. If you say you are very active, but when a match is scheduled, people dont show up. They have other things in real life or other games or other mixes or simply forgot.
4. People that dont speak the language. Dont join an international clan where english is the main language if you cant make yourself clear.
Enough people in the recruitment area that are guilty to one or more of the above points. They wouldnt find a team. Or they join a team that is likely to fold within a few weeks. I think there are enough people that try to start a new team. They are folding a lot and that why a lot of people have a long list of folded teams in their history. However the OP knows by himself how hard it is to make a team as he was leader from cc2.
Besides these points you also have in consideration that some people simply play the wrong classes, have a playstyle that doesnt suit or personalities that doesnt mix with the rest of the team. You may be very, VERY lucky if you find a player that fits in your team in terms of personality and playstyle between all those foreign, unreliable, overestimating deathmatchers.
There is simply a large amount of people that are clanless for a long time and wouldnt find one soon. They are mixing and playing pickups instead of simply picking a team and become better. When you dont play in a team you wont become better. Those people dont realise that skill levels are inflating and where not mid a year ago and certainly not now. Because they are bored, they are frantically refreshing their recruitment posts and replying to other nonamers and boosts each others ego up. Making these threads meaningless. Because anyone that plays for at least a year at div4/3 level arent likely to follow the recruitment section. And if they do, they dont want to leave a negative post to those recruitment threads, when there are 20+ positive of some clanless dudes.
I can think of some solution. Make it easy when a post is valuable or not. Give anyone that posts on the recruitment section three stars if it plays more as a year to the league and/or plays at div2/1. Give anyone who plays at least a half year and/or to div3/4 two stars. The rest get one star. At once 99% of all those recruitment posts become meaningless, because nobody believes a one-lined comment of someone with only one star anymore. People that are playing for a long time in this league are likely to get some good and valuable response. Clanless people for more then year finally come to the conclusion they have to start div5/6 and work their way to the top.
When i would make a team i would do it on the following way. If you dont know someone that wants to join your team he is shit. If you do know him, then you can decide for yourself he is shit or not. After playing for almost two years you are likely to know the people and clans that understand the game. Personally i dont give to much value to those recruitment posts and mostly handle from my own knowledge.
Last edited by Waster,
Quoted from Waster
Recruitment is nice in theory but in practice…
There are 4 common problems why recruitment section doesnt work.
1. People are overestimating themselves. Like now, in the recruitment area and sorting on mid, you see masther and matu at the first results. One of them has 1.5 year mid experience the other hasnt even joined a low clan for more as 15 days.
2. People that arent teamplayers and cant take criticism. To become better you need to learn from eachother and sometimes sacrifice for the greater goods or fall back to help your teammates. Enough people that only understand the game on deathmatch level. And arent prepared to listen to others.
3. People that are assholes and unreliable. If you say you are very active, but when a match is scheduled, people dont show up. They have other things in real life or other games or other mixes or simply forgot.
4. People that dont speak the language. Dont join an international clan where english is the main language if you cant make yourself clear.Enough people in the recruitment area that are guilty to one or more of the above points. They wouldnt find a team. Or they join a team that is likely to fold within a few weeks. I think there are enough people that try to start a new team. They are folding a lot and that why a lot of people have a long list of folded teams in their history. However the OP knows by himself how hard it is to make a team as he was leader from cc2.
Besides these points you also have in consideration that some people simply play the wrong classes, have a playstyle that doesnt suit or personalities that doesnt mix with the rest of the team. You may be very, VERY lucky if you find a player that fits in your team in terms of personality and playstyle between all those foreign, unreliable, overestimating deathmatchers.
There is simply a large amount of people that are clanless for a long time and wouldnt find one soon. They are mixing and playing pickups instead of simply picking a team and become better. When you dont play in a team you wont become better. Those people dont realise that skill levels are inflating and where not mid a year ago and certainly not now. Because they are bored, they are frantically refreshing their recruitment posts and replying to other nonamers and boosts each others ego up. Making these threads meaningless. Because anyone that plays for at least a year at div4/3 level arent likely to follow the recruitment section. And if they do, they dont want to leave a negative post to those recruitment threads, when there are 20+ positive of some clanless dudes.
I can think of some solution. Make it easy when a post is valuable or not. Give anyone that posts on the recruitment section three start if it plays more as a year to the league and/or plays at div2/1. Give anyone who plays at least a half year and/or to div3/4 two stars. The rest get one star. At once 99% of all those recruitment posts become meaningless, because nobody believes a one-lined comment of someone with only one star anymore. People that are playing for a long time in this league are likely to get some good and valuable response. Clanless people for more then year finally come to the conclusion they have to start div5/6 and work their way to the top.
When i would make a team i would do it on the following way. If you dont know someone that wants to join your team he is shit. If you do know him, then you can decide for yourself he is shit or not. After playing for almost two years you are likely to know the people and clans that understand the game. Personally i dont give to much value to those recruitment posts and mostly handle from my own knowledge.
WALL OF TEXT
I’d say the recruitment section is a good thing. Don’t see a problem with people are looking for a good team even they ain’t this level yet. They are going to improve.
And like Demsi wrote a few posts above it all the way that players tended to give positive feedback about others even if they would never consider to recruit such a guy. As soon as someone wrote objective negative stuff he set himself ready to receive a warning. Seriously I’m all for a nice atmosphere but if players are looking for teams each week then people should know why and shouldn’t run into a trap.
Quoted from octochris
WALL OF TEXT
Hi, i’m Chris. I like to post in every forum, just so people notice me, without actually saying stuff.
:)
2 things to add to this thread from what I can see so far.
1. This is why I like my teams recruitment process :). We are founded of mainly public players, with public play and fun in mind. We select regular players we get on with and who want to join and get them to tag up. Then the new guys can choose to join the 6v6 team or not. I’m sure we’re going to end up with 2 or 3 teams (doesn’t matter if we’re all div6/div5 tbh). Doing it this way meant that we got to know each other well before tags were applied and we now have a large base of loyal friends. Because we know each other so well and play together so often, we don’t rage at each other and if we do, we get why and help out. All of these reasons help towards the fact that I can’t see WDG folding from any Season we enter.
2. This could quite easily be done on IRC with the following etiquette-
A team decides on a time/class/skill they’re available for/want and pop on an IRC channel. The rest of the process looks as follows-
Team post in channel = “X Team wants X language speaking X skill X class for trial tonight at X time”
Player PMs poster = “Hey, I’m a X language speaking X skill X class and I can be available at X time”
Team = “That’s great, add me on steam = LINK”
Player = “Done, thanks! Do you have mumble and server details so I can be ready?”
Team = “Yes sure thing! Here you go XXXXXXXX”
Player = “Great! See you at X time! Hope it goes well. bb”
Team = “bb and gl”
Player = “gl”
The team then makes sure they’re ready for the new player at the agreed time by readying the voice and game servers and being ready to search for a team.
That could be done and arranged in around 2 mins! If you like each other, play a few more games together. If not, look again. If you get on after a few more games, make a choice to recruit the player You’re never going to solve people being idiots, raging or quitting teams halfway though a season, that’s the nature of man but you can make the whole process easier, quicker and less painful on everyone (including the ETF2L.org web server!). Hell, I’d even start the channel and get it going! (if there already is such a channel, maybe it needs advertising/revising a little first)
Last edited by Chaos,
Quoted from Waster
I can think of some solution. Make it easy when a post is valuable or not. Give anyone that posts on the recruitment section three stars if it plays more as a year to the league and/or plays at div2/1. Give anyone who plays at least a half year and/or to div3/4 two stars. The rest get one star. At once 99% of all those recruitment posts become meaningless, because nobody believes a one-lined comment of someone with only one star anymore. People that are playing for a long time in this league are likely to get some good and valuable response. Clanless people for more then year finally come to the conclusion they have to start div5/6 and work their way to the top.
Actually this isn’t a bad idea, some sort of karma system. Perhaps influenced by the ones at slashdot, stackoverflow or even like the system in youtube comments.
Quoted from octochris
[…]
WALL OF TEXT
Maybe you can learn something of my post by actually reading it. You for example fit in at least the first category. When i am looking at your replies in your recruitment thread only clanless people, people still in a folded team and people in low div5/6 teams responds to your thread. Funny thing is, how can they say that someone is mid while they even dont know what mid skilled is. I also dont see where your experience is coming from.
I dont care if all your 100 clanless friends respond to your thread how awesome you are. But i do care that good players who are honest about their skill level look bad with only 3 replies.
Quoted from Waster
[…]
Maybe you can learn something of my post by actually reading it. You for example fit in at least the first category. When i am looking at your replies in your recruitment thread only clanless people, people still in a folded team and people in low div5/6 teams responds to your thread. Funny thing is, how can they say that someone is mid while they even dont know what mid skilled is. I also dont see where your experience is coming from.I dont care if all your 100 clanless friends respond to your thread how awesome you are. But i do care that good players who are honest about their skill level look bad with only 3 replies.
I didn’t ask these people to come and comment on my thread. They commented of their own free will.
Regardless, the comments on my recruitment thread do not determine whether I am a good medic or not. That is determined entirely from how I play, and I do play at that level, so there you go, really.
Quoted from FluffY ZeuZ
[…]
Hi, i’m Chris. I like to post in every forum, just so people notice me, without actually saying stuff.
:)
that’s me!
Last edited by octochris,
I’d say also that the recruitment section is not usefull for players looking for a team too. While i was looking for a team i’ve been added by many new teams / mixes of div5-6 players, though i gave it a shot trying to be kind and not an ass :)
Nice idea Waster, even if i’m not really found of the elitist stuff in general ^^
Yeah, shit :d
Quoted from Chaos
We are founded of mainly public players, with public play and fun in mind. We select regular players we get on with and who want to join and get them to tag up. Then the new guys can choose to join the 6v6 team or not.
This is exactly how FB started in the first place and look where we’re at right now!
Quoted from demsii
most people dont wanna be an asshole and give someone a negative rating, unless you’re called Demourge.
I have to say you are a real prick :D, <3
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