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Quoted from Skyride

I’d prefer 10 cheaters let off the hook than 1 injustice.

Hear hear.

Best of luck figuring out a better anti-cheat system, admins. I know it’s not easy.

Quoted from quad

[…]
It must only be based with technical evidence still..
Not: “He hax0r, because we say, ban nao”

I agree and would never say anything to the contrary. It just depends on the level of trust between different leagues. Since one league would be putting their faith in another not to leak anything that they send across. There’s certainly an avenue to explore anyway :)

I’ve removed a few more completely unconstructive comments from this thread. Please make yourselves aware with the warning in the first post, before posting.

D2M if you do most of what you wish to achieve it will be a big step forward for ETF2L

The cross league evidence sharing/banning was tried once before and failed (before your time, I think), I’m not going into reasons here as it is not appropriate, however it was all documented on a website/forum that was set up for it (sure someone will still have a link, I don’t have it anymore). Step by step measures were almost agreed between the leagues at the time (ED/UKESA/WP/ESL/ETF2L), with the steps you seem prepared to take, this may work now.

But the process must be seen to be (and actually be) fair, with an appeals process, which may mean in certain circumstances you have to give information regarding the ban to the player/team leader, as it is impossible to appeal/submit new evidence if you don’t know why you have been banned, ways this can be done securely were documented on the previous joint a/c venture, and most of all, all bans must be beyond reasonable doubt! As this is a players career not just in TF2 but may affect all future online games

If you want to discuss any of this I’m not a hard person to contact, if you don’t fair enough, and good luck

First of all, I think that cooperating with the other tf2 leagues in Europe is a great first step.

Secondly I think that – as some people have mentioned – having a discussion about this with Valve and the TF2 developers would be a great idea. They can’t be too happy about cheats either. This discussion would carry more weight if it were to come from a united AC panel from all the leagues.

Regarding AC programs I can’t see it being a success since people don’t like running external programs that poke around while you’re playing. Yes – you would be able to find the obvious stupid cheaters – but so would a good AC admin and a good AC admin would (since he’s good) be able to catch the smarter ones.

The problem with technical evidence is that cheating AC programs isn’t that hard and it will eventually boil down to what a couple of experienced eyes think of it.

My conclusion:
– If someone throws an AC program at us, HOORAY, use it. But I don’t see the gain subscribing to one.
– Try to gather the leagues for a joint effort to catch cheaters with a unified policy.
– Contact Valve about the issue and try to work together with them.

If a doctor tells you that you have cancer, you won’t argue with him, you trust his judgement.
If a plumber tells you that your pipes are busted, you trust his judgement, you don’t ask him to take time to show you what evidence made him come to that conclusion.

So why, when an AC admin makes a similar – PROFESSIONAL – judgement, do you question that?

AC admins are not just people picked off the street and asked for an opinion. They have experience and knowledge that enables them to make a clear and justified judgement. Given the massive failure that is punkbuster, x-ray and aequitas (to a lesser degree), only a fool would trust an automated system over that.

(Also I’m sorry if giving AC Admins a “professional status” angers anyone as it undermines their job, but at the end of the day it comes down to what knowledge you have, not how you obtained it)

Quoted from Koeitje

[…]

Newspost always state the reason (aimbot, wallhack etc), that should be sufficient. What would knowing more add to that?

For a news post it is, however like discussed in the previous anti cheat council, certain circumstances require more information, and or could be required if a player was to appeal a ban.

Like D2M said, this topic is more about ideas and discussion not flaming, if you’d like to discus reasons when more information may be required, talk to me, if you are determined not to listen or just to disagree whatever is said please don’t bother, time is sometihng that I don’t have alot of to waste, a public forum is not the place to discuss this (especially not this topic)

Quoted from Skyride

If a doctor tells you that you have cancer, you won’t argue with him, you trust his judgement.
If a plumber tells you that your pipes are busted, you trust his judgement, you don’t ask him to take time to show you what evidence made him come to that conclusion.

So why, when an AC admin makes a similar – PROFESSIONAL – judgement, do you question that?

this is just too stupid to let it go :D

the doctor uses software aid (can use your metaphore to compare to anti cheat program), and he even shows you if u ask.
the plumber uses his judgement, but if u ask he shows you the pipe and tries to explain where is the problem.

similar professional judgment yes, but when we question they dont have the same procedure.

I dont expect them to release the evidence, but i like the idea of having atleast 3 AC admins checking the same demos, without talking to each other, and if 1 of them doesnt find anythin suspicious the guy is innocent, and u can even reduce the error increasing the AC admins, 5guys confirming cheats is better than 3, 7 better than 5, etc… Also, get the best AC admins, and make a 2nd team, just working on appeals.

Quoted from Skyride

only a fool would trust an automated system over that

I find it very funny that you say something like this after saying something like this earlier:

Quoted from Skyride

Also, I’d prefer 10 cheaters let off the hook than 1 injustice.

You don’t get ‘injustice’ with properly set up automated systems, because properly set up automated systems (that are set up to look for signatures) look for loggable actions and not just “he was slightly wiggly here”.

With that said, I agree with you that the AC team we have here are a ton more effective than Aequitas and the like, but you seem to contradict yourself.