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I’d really not like to see all unlocks banned. We have indeed come so far in the competitive scene, we’ve reached a nice stage where there are many options open to a team and individual in a match, and then 1 patch comes along that we don’t all agree upon and we decide to backtrack all the way back to the start where no unlocks are allowed? :/ After all the new shit that we’ve learnt and adapted to?

What it seems to come down to is old sticks in the mud refusing to change. It’s like listening to my nan complain about modern stuff. It’s only been a week and people want ALL unlocks banned? And we’re still talking about the fan?

I mean when you picked up this game originally, and you got killed by say a pyro setting you on fire, you didn’t immediately go “WTF OVERPOWERED GUN THIS IS SHIT BAN PYRO!” — You learnt how to deal with it.

So FAN/TDH/pick comes along, you get killed by it and people immediately go “OMFG THAT’S SHIT BAN IT FFS I’M BETTER THAN YOU YOU’RE UNFAIR!” Why don’t you adapt to it, learn how to deal with it, accept it as part of the game in the same way you did pyro? FAN may be an easier gun to use than say scatter but it has its drawbacks, and there ARE things you can do to counter it. The strength of the FAN for me isn’t even the knockback or damage, it’s the utility and mobility.

Some of the people complaining are meant to be among the best tf2 have to offer (and they’ve reminded us all of this fact a few times). If a lowly shitnewb like me can adapt to fan to the point where i PREFER playing against a fanscout, then surely people better than me can?

That’s not to say guns cannot be unfair. Some shit comes in and it needs tweaking. if valve can’t do that, neither can we, so it needs to be banned. Personally i think TDH and BB are a little gay at the moment, so they need tweaking, if they’re not tweaked, i’d be for a ban in leagues.

But to ban all unlocks because some people want to play the exact same strats and with the exact same methods they did from day 1? Come on boys… let’s keep it fresh, let’s not make the sky our limit.

Edit: Exactly right dominix. And i think i disagree dunc. Necessity is the mother of invention, when you have more options open and more things to deal with, it makes you become inventive and adapt. And i think the reason people complain is because they’re too lazy/apathetic to DO that – and ‘because i’m too lazy to adapt’ isn’t a good reason for a ban!

thanks vlad for providing the irrational arguments I was talking about

= we use FaN, please don’t ban it

:D

Edit: Exactly right dominix. And i think i disagree dunc. Necessity is the mother of invention, when you have more options open and more things to deal with, it makes you become inventive and adapt. And i think the reason people complain is because they’re too lazy/apathetic to DO that – and ‘because i’m too lazy to adapt’ isn’t a good reason for a ban!

Laziness has nothing to do with it? We will likely be playing 8 to 10 hours of TF2 just like most of the top teams, that won’t change. For a new team, that amount of TF2 is barely enough to progress, especially against teams like Dig that have been around with the same lineup for so long now.

Adding in more stuff to learn, more tactics to counter, more blah more blah. There’s no real longevity there at all, though it might seem there is at first. CS and CoD4 have effectively proven that.

But surely with more weapons there are more tactical options, this is especially true when there are only 3/4 good maps and class limits.

Yeah but my point is it’s getting to the stage where there’s so many fucking ridiculous weapons with special abilities that you can’t practice against them. It’s similar to having 12 competitively played maps, teams just aren’t going to develop properly if they have to contemplate *so* many tactical variations.

CS and CoD4 work well because there’s a few variations but not too many. Vanilla TF2 was like that too. Once you put too much stuff in, it just gets past a joke.

CS and CoD4 work well because there are a lot of ways in which you can win maps, more strats and timings (set nades/flashes for example) per map than TF2 and much more clutch play, for example winning 5vs1 and the like.

If you remove the unlocks from TF2 at the moment where there are a limited number of maps (each of which is played pretty much the same each time i.e waiting for uber) I think people who get bored especially the old members of the community who played vanilla 6v6 when the game came out, especially now there are classlimits. This is exactly what happened to TFC, too few maps and strats.

I agree that the sword and shield is very silly, but I doubt any top demo would use it.

With all this arguing over weapons being under/overpowered I can’t help but think a promod is the way to go. It would allow the comp. community to tweak controvertial weapons like TDH, buff banner, FaN, Equalizer etc. exactly how they should be for competitive play.

I can’t help but think

This is where you’re going wrong

Paul are you honestly saying there’s more ways to win a round in CS than there is in vanilla TF2?

Vlad I pressed enter too soon, calm your fucking passions :D

Of course there is as CS and CoD can be played very individually and very team oriented. Pretty much every time you win a point in TF2 it is because, you killed the demoman or medic before they killed yours.

When I talk about winning rounds i compare it to winning a CP in TF2. Not winning the whole round.

With all this arguing over weapons being under/overpowered I can’t help but think a promod is the way to go. It would allow the comp. community to tweak controvertial weapons like TDH, buff banner, FaN, Equalizer etc. exactly how they should be for competitive play.

Probably a bad idea. Read berserkers post a couple of pages back.