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Soldier Weps, Overpowered or not?
Created 18th December 2009 @ 05:13
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For me the only real problem with the new solly weapons is the crits with the TDH when you are jumping or 1mm of the floor. Scouts stand very little chance, the jumpy little buggers.
any weapon that can get a 1hit 1kill other than the sniper rifle should be adjusted or banned, its that easy
Bye bye Spies.
(I’d actually love that :D)
Anyhoo, I think if they fix the mini-crit bug, the TDH is fine. Simple as.
As for the banner, due to Valve’s server’s being made of fail, I’ve not had a chance to test it yet…
Is there a way to turn off mini crits server side (like normal crits) or do they fall under the knife/rifle category?
It would be interesting to test this version first with no other changes to damage or splash or speed etc.
I personally think the melee weapons have to stay for fun factor :D
The horn I only got last night I really am not sure on that yet.
Last edited by toasty.,
FAN and TDH both have in common that in most fights, the outcome of the fight depends entirely on the performance of the person wielding the weapon, and unlike the sniper, the leniency of the weapons (spread, rate of fire, splash, lack of FOV penalty, speed, health) allow such results to be more consistent than a sniper.
This basically negates the concept of relative skill, which is more or less what competition is all about. If it was something that happened occasionally, requiring a degree of accuracy that is not reproducable with consistency, it’d be okay. But hitting a single direct is not a feat.
stv demos from the cupfinal are on resupply
both teams used tdh and it didn’t feel overpowered
only the minicrits have to be removed/altered
When the TDH first came out I was quite shocked that soldiers would be able to one hit me now as a scout. But after playing against a few opponents who have used it, I have to say I have a much, much easier time to perform against TDH soldiers due to missing splash. If they dont hit me while I’m coming up, they are basically dead. Of course it is annoying as fuck to get instagibbed when they hit, but so many people are forgetting the situations they lived in, when they would’ve died when the soldier would’ve wield the normal RL.
Only the minicrits have to go. The amount of lucky kills our soldiers have gotten because of it is quite ridicolous.
If anything is overpowered is the bugle and the equalizer comes quite close behind. The bugle will become a necessity in 6on6 if it stays in its current form. The Equalizer’s damage bonus is insane, might need a bit toning down, but the speed bonus makes the soldier much more flexible.
Last edited by Isai,
I think we came to a point, where we all agree that the mini-crits should be removed (and maybe more splashdamage added) and it isn’t overpowered. Now, let’s send all a whine-email to Valve, in which we complain about the mini-crits. This should remove them very fast.
No seriously, I asked MeeB to send an email. He’s the man who’s in contact with Valve.
+12% damage
-55% splash (-60% maybe)
+80% speed
no minicrits.
Atm the weapon is retarded. It technically is “balanced” in the terms that the ammount of frags you get with it and how the spam works on mid doesn’t really affect the outcome of the game that much; however, the fact it can instagib any 125hp class is lame and can turn a game just like that.
Twice yesterday in our game vs rockit a soldier got a 1 hit rocket when our medic had full uber (in one case we had like 50% uber advantage iirc). This argueably lost us one round and really fucked up the next. I personally don’t like the fact you can’t dodge the rockets but I guess that makes it more skill based on the soldier.
My main qualm isn’t with the DH anyway.
The equalizer needs some serious balancing. Either the speed needs to be scaled down or the damage, or both by a smaller fraction. The fact is; a soldier on below 40hp can run at 90% the speed of a scout and 1 hit 6/9 of the classes. Sure you can argue, “but what good is 40hp anyway?”, but infact that health is sufficient to get one hit off anyway vs unaware opponents. The weapons speed lets you get behind any distracted opponents and lay off a hit. You can also ambush people with it, rocketjump (making you hard to hit for the majority of classes) and attack, and when you are in combat with someone else who is out of ammo (meleeing) then you are pretty much guaranteed to win; the lower you get him the more likely he’s going to kill you! Combine this with the fact you can use it as a getaway weapon, medpack stealer, or anti-pyro (the DoT on the flame gives you more speeeeeed so you can get meds or get out of his range) makes this weapon just imba. No negative side at all and just a shit load of positive. Lets face it; when do you melee on fullhealth any? Like once in a fucking blue moon.
The bugel I have mixed thoughts on. I understand people argueing about how it will “add a new dimension and tactical side to tf2 play”, and yes it can, however it can also make the game unpredictable, unreadable and imo changes the play of the game too much. It’s not like a straight down uber where the speed of charge is predictable and you know when the enemy has it or not. Infact there is no way to tell when they have it till it’s been popped!!! The damage required to charge it is easy and most sollys have it after a spam war on mid. The fact it lasts for 14 seconds is a joke, this outstretches an uber charge by 6 seconds. This means with clever play you can actually beat an uber with this, unlike kritz where if you lose your chance then it’s over. THere is no risk associated with this weapon. It’s just a massive +20 in the teams direction. Sure I do like the fact you can use it as a fallback tactic to either pop uber or use once they have popped uber (after), but I just think it changes gameplay too much. I didn’t see any fun in it anyway. All games rely on you reading the game and knowing what your team is doing, TF2 is already a good game like that, I didn’t see the point in adding something so unpredictable. Also; I’m all for a buff weapon for the other classes. It promotes teamplay and is good for tactical variance. But we already have the kritzkreig, why now something exactly the same (pretty much)?
Anyway… that’s my input. Haven’t seen or tried the boots, but I’m sure the damage taken is balanced with the fact you lose your hitscan weapon.
The Buff Banner currently has a huge flaw in it, whether it’s intentional or not, I do not know. But anyway, the rage meter fills proportionately to the amount of damage you do to people. However, if you do 100 damage to one person, then do 100 damage to the same person, it will add 300 not 200 in total to the rage meter. This means its adding the total damage you’ve done to that person to the counter every time you do damage to them.
Sigma explains it better http://commforums.com/unlock-details-t2768.html?t=2768
Infact there is no way to tell when they have it till it’s been popped!!!
There is a short time where the soldier loudly plays the bugle, so you’ll have a little time to prepare.
Last edited by Randdalf,
I think we came to a point, where we all agree that the mini-crits should be removed
HOLY SHIT! ETF2L forum users reach a consensus?!?!?!?
Whatever next? Flying pigs? Icebergs in Hell? What, what?
Shall I declare ‘my’ consensus ? Ridiculous try.
dh is so weak vs scouts that if you made it take 2 shots instead of 1 to kill a non-overhealed scout then the weapon would be useless
also, here is how the banner charges: http://commforums.com/unlock-details-t2768.html?t=2768
What seagull said basically, while the weapon might be effective against scouts with mediocre movement, it’d be pretty useless against the better scouts if they weren’t killed in 1 shot. Besides the mini-crit feature I’m completely fine with this weapon in its current state. In yesterday’s EsH final, both TDH users (i.e. coinz and snifz) were missing a lot of shots, or played the way they used to play with the old RL (spamming rockets between opponents instead of going for directs), which was pretty ineffective. On top of that PwR had snifz as a pocket solly (at least he hanged out with medic more often) and moose with an old RL as a roaming one. It seemed it would have been more logical to do it other way round, as snifz had hard times defending his medic and moose would probably have done better with a faster weapon.
TL:DR – leave TDH in its current state, it’s not OP.
I agree banner seems overpowered, although when you push with it, you gather whole team in one place and in result you become easily spammable. Play with it, ban it, I don’t care.
As many said before me, pickaxe is probably the best unlock solly received, finally making this class comparable with scout and demoman in usefullness. It simply must stay, otherwise soldier will remain the status of the dullest and least fun class to play.
/my 2 cents
TL:DR – leave TDH in its current state, it’s not OP.
It’s not, but no one likes being instagibbed, and no weapon besides sniper rifle/knife should 1-hit people. Sollies still have their shotguns to finish off scouts.
It’s not, but no one likes being instagibbed, and no weapon besides sniper rifle/knife should 1-hit people. Sollies still have their shotguns to finish off scouts.
You forgot about the sticky launcher – it 1 hits all 125 hp classes if a sticky bomb is placed directly under an opponent. Remember that also nades were able to 1-shot people, but demoman with 2 weapons able to 1-shot was so overpowered, they decided to nerf the nades. Soldier on the other hand never had such opportunity, the only means to deal with scouts was to reduce the maneuverability of his foe by splash damage, and then finish him off while he is still invulnerable. What you said is a rule people seem to want to follow without questioning it. I think TDH should make an exception.
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