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and if most div1 teams do that vs 2x demo, they generally loose, esp vs wotr :P

(i have no fix opinion yet, try to convince me plx.)

There are 2 sides –
the one says like “you can counter it, just sit down and think how you do it.”
the other says like “no way, 2 demos = fail!”

would like to know from both sides 1 thing:

1. HOW are you supposed to counter it? I am not sitting down and thinking, i gotta heal my ppl.
2. Why is it really “teh fail”?

Everyone uses 2 scouts, i find that highly offensive as Medic, i cant even stand one!!!11 /sarcasm.

So ohnoes div1 clans are bad vs. 2 demomen so the whole tf2 competative community has to suffer?

Certainly not, hence the “Demo Limit 1” thread :)

1 problem with demos is that unlike the rest of the classes, they do not attack in waves. That is to say, soldiers are more effective when closer to the enemy (more damage, easier to hit), and so they push to deal damage, but of course fall back to reload. This applies to scouts, heavies (they cant tank a 6 man teams damage for long), even pyros have to fall back… Demos are the only class that can stay in their defensive position, whilst dealing the damage capabilities of an offensive player (no damage drop off on either of their weapons). So the demo doesnt ever make himself vulnerable at times, and doesnt pull back, where he deals less damage but takes less; he is always doing damage, reloading and in a safe position. For a class that has the hugest damage potential, this is a huge issue imo.

Another issue is that it is a defensive class, and it does just that, it defends. The problem arises when they go out and attack, but taking a position and defending it. It works extremely well, because it is their design, and they can hold an area by themselves, by simply killing anything that comes near. Im not suggesting a defence class should be forced to go point two at start, and not even try to attack, but that this way of defending is hard to overcome.

Also the huge range of random damage makes it extremely hard to predict the outcome of a fight with a demo: he could hit a solly with two 130 damage nades and kill him, or he could hit him with two 60 damage nades, and have a much smaller effect on his life.

And another huge issue imo, is that sticky grenades are by design meant to be used in bundles (ie. 4 in a group and such, rather than one by one), so why are they the single strongest hit in the whole game? Why do they do more than rockets, scatterguns, shotguns, even a long blasting of a flamethrower.

Just some thoughts for people to look at and consider.