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Exatally.
So Kovacs what you’re failing to grasp is that admins have methods which can proove(sorry dunc) 100% if someones cheating, using many different clips and methods.

Obviously theres going to be deliberation in that because you dont know exatally what their doing and cant see the clips that they see and you just want to see like in Cod2 etc punkbuster banned somone for aimbot.exe or a screenshot of green models through walls to proove(sorry dunc) 100% hacker. :-).

Flustraiting i know, but thats the best way to keep their methods safe, is for people who dont matter like you or i, not to see what they do.

you compare all the scout only div1, such an approach, I will not be surprised if there are regular bans players from lower divisions.
Very bad that you have noticed the so-called Cheats only to complete the season. What is normal to blame the players and teams? In the methods of determining Cheats Admin is a big secret? Why would you spoil the season of honest players, if there had not been dropped teams in our group we would be at 4 div, this is a fair decision?

I am not defending Abra, we had to collect the command again from the remnants of ruinous command because of this misunderstanding. But I do not believe in the honesty of his punishment because of lack of evidence.

2. Even a 2 min demo is enough to get someone banned if it shows a player clearly hacking (very noob example: 180 degree – headshot spins – only, as sniper or a 10 second nonstop xhair lock on)

I agree with that, but only to the extent that:
In the first example, its an instant or nearly instantaneous 180 + headshot as its quite possible to do it within a second or two – I’ve done it before

In the second example, only if the 10 seconds of tracking is locked near enough dead centre on the player. Its quite easy to hitscan track consistenty with good crosshair accuracy between the edges of the player model for most of the time, although admittedly its extremely unlikely that the crosshair is CONSTANTLY on the target, unless at long range and the opponent is moving in a predictable fashion, i.e. strafing + retreating in one direction which can be anticipated.

4. We never banned without solid evidence – and we never will

Reassuring, although I’d still like to know whether “solid evidence” could be only demo’s and nothing else, i.e. for Abra’s or KondoR’s case

Also thx to gryzor.

4. We never banned without solid evidence – and we never will

Oyay captain! :) Fail ))

What I see. There is a lot of confusion about how the cheat admins of etf2l are doing their work. All of the relevant information about cheating are scattered in endless amounts of topics. When something isn’t clear a new topic is opened and after a lot of flames sometimes some admin can make things clear. This just reduce the trust in the admin team, like they are hiding something.

Solution? Just center all the scattered information in the faq or the rules. Add all relevant info like the size of the cheat admin team, who are the cheat admins and what is their experience (with cheating). And what’s a proof of cheating? (pov/stv, 1min/30min/multiple demo’s) Etc.

Then it is clear for everybody what’s the opinion of the staff of etf2l. Everybody who don’t read the whole etf2l forums every day and people who are new to the etf2l community have easy access to information about cheating.

Weve had that discussion before, serveral times. If we should make things public, only contact team leaders + the person getting banned, publish evidence or general background informations and everything we tried led to the same result.
Most ppl cant keep informations privately and start spamming on forums – trying to get enough attention to make etf2l look bad or start a flame war.
We have done the stuff mentioned above and it ended in an epic fail (ala never trust anyone online).

Both sides got its pros and cons and we will get flamed no matter what we do.

No one needs to know any details about how we do our job, thats why we got ac admins from every division, including background knowledge about hacks, bot mechanics and how to spot cheaters.

1 Admin cant ban anyone, thats what many ppl just dont understand.
They just blame the idiot who had to tell the guys that they are about to get banned – which is ANNOYING.

Ew, caps :p

I skipped a lot of this thread, but here’s my opinion.

If admins do not show their ‘solid proof’ it’s obviously not that solid. If it was 100% decisive, they wouldn’t be concerned about the community arguing against it. I’m concerned that many of the bans implemented by the ETF2L admin team are for one, based on STV demos which clearly cut corners on angles and positions in order to keep the file size down. When you are looking at aimbots in particular, exact positioning is almost essential in determining if someone is using an aimbot, or has human realism in their aiming patterns.

What the admin team doesn’t realise, is it’s hard for the community to simply trust their opinions when there is nothing available to suggest they are infact correct. By releasing evidence, showing clear cut cases of cheats, and showing methods (I don’t care about advanced secret crap that they apparently use, i’m on about good old standard methods that every man and his dog knows about), the admin team gains the trust of the community, and less evidence would be needed in the future (If they have shown evidence of 50 cheaters, we are more likely to beleive the 51st cheater without the need for evidence).

Right now we have very few public evidence clips, and a lot of players who in the eyes of the community, are considered ‘dodgey’ but not definitavly cheats.

How are we to know the admins are ‘that’ experienced? They could be making a tonne of mistakes, they could have the cheat detection skills of your average public player for all we know. I’m not saying this is the case, or my judgement of them, but just because you slap an admin tag on the end of someone’s name, doesn’t mean they are suddenly experts at catching cheaters. And just because someone worked as an anti cheat admin in a different game, also doesn’t make them experts.

Show us the evidence, methods etc and gain our trust. Proove the critics wrong.