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S20 is 'community funded'*, why not ask community websites to sponsor ETF2L!?
Created 21st January 2015 @ 18:45
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Quoted from Popcorp
[…]
Prem has Money Prizes as always, it’s not crowd funded, but Lower divs now have a chance to win actual money, why would you even complain about money, this is a free league after all, you should be grateful that now you have a chance to win something apart from Medals…FROM A FREE LEAGUE.
I’m trying to make negative criticism on some of the latest announcements, just because the league is free doesn’t mean it’s perfect or things couldn’t be better another way, I have always been thankful for the work the etf2l team put in, that doesn’t mean I can’t disagree or criticize them if I think it could have been done in another way.. If you can’t take criticism, negative or not, you shouldn’t be heading a community league anyway.
Quoted from ondkaja
[…]
Your post contained no useful information or constructive criticisms, so it is not a useful post, like the one in the OP was. If you don’t know how to provide constructive criticisms then you shouldn’t really be in this thread.
I already explained my point numerous times in this and other threads, if you that isn’t constructive criticism and a 1-line post of me unhappy with admin decisions hurt your feelings just close the fuckin thread like you (or any other admin) did with this one: http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30918/page-2/#post-524196
Or if you don’t, then don’t stealthily edit my posts to remove things I wrote, or at least be coherent and remove the tucans here as well http://etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-30812/page-13/#post-524720
Last edited by Kaneco,
Kaneco, not sure what’s up with you lately, but it seems a lot of stuff about TF2 is grinding your gears. You used to post walls of text with tons of ideas and initiatives, but now it’s like a mad child who is not being listened. We don’t know each other, but please man, take a breath. In the end, it’s a fucking video game.
I’m not sure if anyone could ever laugh at community projects in TF2. One of them got tens of thousands of dollars, indeed with more preparations, but I think ETF2L’s goals can be achieved.
Honestly, despite numerous flaws in ETF2L, this could be the best season so far.
Quoted from Kaneco
Nice edit to my post, too bad you didnt remove the other fuckin tucans all over the other threads. And Im the one shitposting.
I removed the tucans and banned the people posting them, not sure what you are talking about.
And if stuff like the tucans arent reported I and probably others as well, wont see it, I have better stuff to do than read every forum post to find spam.
All I did to your post was removing the tucan btw, because I didnt want to get this shit started here as well.
Quoted from Reservoir Dog
Kaneco, not sure what’s up with you lately, but it seems a lot of stuff about TF2 is grinding your gears. You used to post walls of text with tons of ideas and initiatives, but now it’s like a mad child who is not being listened. We don’t know each other, but please man, take a breath. In the end, it’s a fucking video game.
I’m not sure if anyone could ever laugh at community projects in TF2. One of them got tens of thousands of dollars, indeed with more preparations, but I think ETF2L’s goals can be achieved.
Honestly, despite numerous flaws in ETF2L, this could be the best season so far.
Just upset at the hypocrisy going on the forums lately, we have threads going around called “why competitive is dying” which are being bumped for days with “memes”, but it’s all good.
Meanwhile If I post actual negative criticism out of a sudden I’m the one shitposting and being negative.
And here’s my point in more detail in case people didn’t get it. View it from a marketing/business standpoint, you have a newbie cup sponsored by one of the biggest trade sites in the game, with a huge prizepool, so far so good, season 20 promises a lot not only because it’s historical in number but also in terms of innovation and of course that should translate into sponsors/prizepool.
But no, not even trade.tf, no tf2pickup, which supposedly should be available for talks and to help sponsoring such a historic season. Crowdfunding isn’t any sort of innovation, I rather see it as a failure to obtain real sponsors, and for an “historic” and “innovative” s20, that speaks volumes about inability of tf2 to get real sponsors, even if not intended, bad decisions all around to be honest, you could even keep the crowdfunding prizepool while still having real partners/sponsors adding up to that prizepool.
And it seems I’m not the only one unhappy about it as Im not the OP.
Last edited by Kaneco,
So what you are trying to say “it could be better”. Well you know man – you are right. Yeah, all the admins could call all the community project leaders into mumble for a meeting or two, and then scratch some of that money, from all those thousands of euros they earn.
But this community project affects everyone – from regular players like you and me, to zoob, Arie and whoever is running scrap.tf. It’s a public call for donations, and who knows maybe they will try a direct approach with that. In all honesty, even if they do a sponosorship initiative, I don’t see any community projects bringing money into this.
And your negative criticism is the easiest thing you can do. I’m not telling you to kiss anyone’s ass, but don’t expect people to notice your post, your thoughts or any points you make.
EDIT: I’m not sure why are you even talking about the spammers. Kids probably found out about 9gag and that’s it.
Last edited by Reservoir Dog,
http://puu.sh/eQ5iB/7cd97d9ad8.png
thanks a lot for constructive criticism
going back to my original post
– new tournament system is a nice refreshing change , several advantages have been discussed in several threads before ( iam sorry if you kaneco don’t think its neccessary but pretty sure most people realise that its a step into the right direction)
– new maps/unlocks; etf2l finally taking a risk by removing an old established map to “kinda” bring in two new maps and give us the chance to make the pool of maps being played bigger
– making season more attractive/prices for low divs: yes there were prices before which were kindly donated by several people(<3), but (and even a grumpy nerd like you will agree with that) having 4 divisions+providing better/bigger prices for them is an upgrade to previous seasons and definetly increases the competitive aspect of the league and makes it somewhat more "professional" (obviously not talking csgo/dota/LoL standards)
– big site updates: well maybe you should actually read newsposts etc and yes i know that the new layout hasnt been released yet (people working on that for free just saying), emoticons!!!! for donators (but oviously you can't enjoy those cuz you are busy ranting about direct hit or something)
– prices for kind donators
since etf2l is not a big company/ tf2 not a big esport with any support obviously all the price money is from the community, instead of just asking for money (na fundraiser i46 cough cough 20k) etf2l tried to actually come up with as much as possible to give back
about the "oh why didnt you release it earlier omg …why didnt you ask everyone etc"
All of this was made by 3 people under time pressure! if you wanna help out for s21 and can provide any help to make this league bigger/higher success/ pricepool etc i am pretty sure all you have to do is to talk to the respective Headadmins and i am a 100 percent certain that they appreciate all the help they can get
sorry for long post
Quoted from Kaneco
[…]
Just upset at the hypocrisy going on the forums lately, we have threads going around called “why competitive is dying” which are being bumped for days with “memes”, but it’s all good.
Meanwhile If I post actual negative criticism out of a sudden I’m the one shitposting and being negative.
And here’s my point in more detail in case people didn’t get it. View it from a marketing/business standpoint, you have a newbie cup sponsored by one of the biggest trade sites in the game, with a huge prizepool, so far so good, season 20 promises a lot not only because it’s historical in number but also in terms of innovation and of course that should translate into sponsors/prizepool.
But no, not even trade.tf, no tf2pickup, which supposedly should be available for talks and to help sponsoring such a historic season. Crowdfunding isn’t any sort of innovation, I rather see it as a failure to obtain real sponsors, and for an “historic” and “innovative” s20, that speaks volumes about inability of tf2 to get real sponsors, even if not intended, bad decisions all around to be honest, you could even keep the crowdfunding prizepool while still having real partners/sponsors adding up to that prizepool.And it seems I’m not the only one unhappy about it as Im not the OP.
If only it was out of a sudden, but with you it seems to be the rule of thumb. And once again, we wont close threads only because they are not positive, otherwise we could also delete everything you are posting, because its negative right? :> And as above stated, posting tucans or whatever gets you banned if admins are aware.
scrap.tf is sponsoring the archimedes cup already, afaik geel wanted to help support the competitive scene by sponsoring a newbie cup, so theres more teams following the already declining numbers in signups. So far he has not expressed any interest in sponsoring a regular etf2l season. At least not that I know of.
And I dont want to talk badly about tf2pickup here, but I dont see them sponsoring a main season, so far they once sponsored division 1 with 100€, the following season I asked them if they wanted to do that again they declined. And for s19 they sponsored strange weapons, hats and killstreak kits. While that is nice for lower divisions, because they have something to win as well, those prizes are nothing you can fund premiership with.
We are not trying to be innovative here, we wanted to approach the prize money for s20 differently than asking out anonymous donator for 1k€ again. Other fundraising drives like sending teams to lans or even cevo proved that it was possible to raise quite a substantial amount of money, therefore we wanted to try the same, to have more than the standard 1k€ for s20.
And dont you even talk about the failure to obtain sponsors when you have no idea or insight in what is happening behind the curtain. Dont you think we have tried to get in touch with sponsors? With major and minor names alike. Throughout almost every company and website even remotely connected to esports or with any relation to computers or anything alike. Team Fortress 2 simply isnt the big eye catcher dota 2 or csgo are. Theres rarely anyone crazy enough about Team Fortress 2 to invest tons or even bits of money.
On a somewhat related note, we actually managed to secure a sponsorship deal which is bringing a fair amount of money with it. But since you are so well informed Kaneco you surely know about that. :)
Edit: For everyone complaining that the fundraiser was announced so late. The whole thing was planned to start earlier, but season 20 collided with my exams. And for once I decided to invest the time rather into learning than into etf2l.
Quoted from Reservoir Dog
So what you are trying to say “it could be better”. Well you know man – you are right. Yeah, all the admins could call all the community project leaders into mumble for a meeting or two, and then scratch some of that money, from all those thousands of euros they earn.
But this community project affects everyone – from regular players like you and me, to zoob, Arie and whoever is running scrap.tf. It’s a public call for donations, and who knows maybe they will try a direct approach with that. In all honesty, even if they do a sponosorship initiative, I don’t see any community projects bringing money into this.
It’s not the way to go, and we’re talking different things it seems.
Trade.tf, scrap.tf, etc are for profit sites, or even if they aren’t they have a high turnover, they are involved in numerous things, scrap.tf sponsored archimedes cup with 1500€ ffs, trade.tf sponsors b4nny stream, and have sponsored numerous other community sites, it shouldn’t be hard to get in talks with some of those trading sites for something similar and in comparison much bigger, but it just seems no effort was made in that direction.
As for tf2pickup, well Wiethoofd is actually unhappy no one contacted tf2pickup because while we are not a for profit site I think the site is still doing decently in terms of items from donations and such, and we have sponsored multiple cups, and events in the past.
Arie is an amazing person for everything he put towards the community in previous events and cups, so I wouldn’t put it past him to agree to help this season as well, but obviously I can’t speak for him.
As for me, I never asked for donations nor I took them other than in our old cups (which was all put towards the prizepool), so I’m actually running comp.tf at a loss, or I was, at least until I got hypernia to help out. And in my current life situation I am actually unable to put anything forward (other than my time) for anything tf2 related, be it comp.tf or a crowdfunded league.
Different people/projects, different circumstances, completely different things, because I think you missed the point.
Quoted from Reservoir Dog
And your negative criticism is the easiest thing you can do. I’m not telling you to kiss anyone’s ass, but don’t expect people to notice your post, your thoughts or any points you make.
It’s ok, I don’t expect nor want to be part of the “cool kids” group anyway, I’d rather speak my mind and actually having an opinion.
Please note, this is all about 6v6.
We can pick up the slack when HL season 8 gets drafted
I agree that it should have been earlier so that these communities/sites like scrap/trade.tf could choose to support ETF2L if they wanted. They still can I suppose but I think it’d have been better if it was known a bit earlier is all.
Sonnyblack your last post was the only enlightening one I have read so far about the current league situation, so kudos to that.
It seems I obviously didn’t know of some talks going behind the scenes, but it still seems rather strange that none of the big “community players” would want in on such an historic season specially taking into account that almost all previous seasons had such support.
It’s just such a let down honestly, and I don’t say this out of spite or anything, it makes me genuinely disappointed, as I’m very passionate about the scene obviously
And the thing with crowdfunding, is that it doesn’t seem sustainable, yes, you’re giving perks, yes maybe it’s even gonna be a good season in terms of money prizepool thanks to that (still really lackluster in terms of signups), but then, next seasons? Because the number of people attracted to those perks will decrease as more people have them, if they’re permanent like the emoticons and custom title.
Last edited by Kaneco,
Quoted from Hildreth
It’s not good PR for any perspective community member to see this sort of thing, but we can’t lock the thread as it doesn’t break any forum rules and well freedom of speech and such. Keep debating, but if you want to discuss it more productively with me, add me on steam.
It’s not censorsip what you’re trying, but I don’t like where this is going.
He doesn’t seem to be the only one thinking that way so unless you want get added by a lot of people I’d keep discussing this publicly.
Tbh I think the anouncement was bit late, too. Did you have something different planned that fell flat, did someone have the imho bad idea to make it a surprise or did you just not reach consus until now because of christmas/new year (can’t blame anyone for being busy during that time)?
Edit: Just saw Sonny’s edit. Seems like I sort of guessed right. I’m looking forward to whatever is going to be coming from that sponsorship deal.
Last edited by Setsul,
Quoted from damneasy
because drama
pledge to get sheepy a title about him looking for a girlfriend
agree with kaneco, the announcement WAS late, and not contacting orgs that have supported tf2 in the past seems like a strange decision
maybe he’s not going about it in the right way, but at least he’s passionate about this game and scene
also, i’m pretty sure it’s spelled ‘toucan’ guys.
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