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Players always want more, and no matter how much ETF2L do with regards evidence and all this there is always going to be arguements on this subject. Last time there was shit over letting the teams know in advance so they can prepare, so ETF2L work with the community and do that and then their trust in people gets shit on like arx has done and given ETF2L more reasons not to give everything out.

ETF2L have announced a limited few of the demo’s used to catch people previously, and this is pointless because most people don’t even know what they’re looking for so then you have the situation where everyone is complaining for more yet again because they can’t see it and want avi’s made and everything explained in an idiots guide to them. I can tell you that what is judged on is not obvious stuff that shouts CHEATER so giving out demo’s is a pointless request because you still wont get anything from it and then will post another complaint thread saying you can’t see this person cheating.

If ETF2L start explaining and making everything public(ticks, key moments, reasons explanations, etc) that shows these players cheated then they may as well write an idiots guide on how not to get caught and we all have to play with more cheats not getting caught. I’d rather put my trust in the admin team and go with their decision than have to play with these guys going untouched because they know the limited ways in which the demo’s can catch you.

Winneh explains everything in detailed posts on the admin forums and a group decision to ban is made, not a sole decision by Winneh. This admin team currently consists of names such as: Winneh, Byte, m0re, DeNeusBeer, Wlv etc. So these guys at least can be associated with the decisions, are these not respected members of the community? Winneh also occasionally consults me and gets me to check it out for another opinion from outside of the admin team or if there hasnt been enough input from the other admins so I guess you could add my name to that list too.

On a final note. XAC? Aeq? Don’t make me laugh. As Arx said, they are false hope. They serve to catch the retarded kiddy cheaters that don’t have a clue, but they are easily gotten around. But beyond that they also bring instability and other problems to those that are genuine. I’d rather see things as they are now with ETF2L admins being tight lipped, than a client side anti-cheat be forced like XAC. Quite frankly, TF2 doesnt have an effective server-side anti cheat program either. If any of you want to get a coder to make something worthwhile then go for it and it will always be considered! But this is just the way it is atm :/

And yes F2, I’m aware of that. I’m not trying to start a boycotte or anything. I’m here as part of, and to help the community. A lot of things I do are solely done in an attempt to enhance our community. It’s been like that with every game i’ve ever played.

I’ve done casting for the community, tutorials, had my say in league matters, written to valve, I help with the cadred top 10 rankings (I was planning on doing my own in a similar fashion until I found out Cadred allready had them in the works) to give the community a more ‘proffesional e-sports’ look, I’m in the process of writing individual map tactics to help out the lower division teams, or new starters improve their game.

I argue against things like this to spark a debate. Even if it’s not nessesarily my opinion, I will always question things. This leads to justifications as to why something is being done the way it is, and that can only lead to improvements. This case as with some of them isn’t entirely like that. This one effects me personally, it is a team mate of mine being banned and I just want to make sure the admins have made the right decision. I’m hoping they have got it right just to highlight what a great job they do for our community, but is it wrong of me to want to make sure? Is it wrong of me to defend people who have been banned for cheating with no proof being submitted? I don’t support cheating but if someone does get banned by use of inconslusive evidence when they didn’t cheat, the admins are HURTING the community more than protecting it. That goes against their reasons for doing this in the first place.

Also, If I was to say I had a really advanced method of catching cheaters, here’s a list of people i’ve caught:

Would you believe me? Would you trust me? If it was you or a team mate involved, would you want me to confirm it? Proove it?”

Then you can ban them from your league! Thats your choice as its your league! Also, the admins of different leagues do actually talk together and share information and evidence and every league makes their own decision. None of the admins from the leagues make bans based on somebody elses say so, they make bans based on the information they have been provided with.

+1 on moles wall of text

“All nazi-analogy agitators are really disqualified concerning this topic.”

lol ofc nazi-analogy is completely exagerated but i still think locking topics in which there is no flame etc is completely exagerated too (i’m not only speaking about arx’s thread but also about Flo’s thread etc.)

when will f0rcenet be banned

Typh0n, that are basic, standard procedures – not the “nice” stuff to get behind the really interesting things. I actually thought u would have been smarter to know that.

ps. sonofpie did not get banned for wh, you should do you homework !

“Then you can ban them from your league! Thats your choice as its your league! Also, the admins of different leagues do actually talk together and share information and evidence and every league makes their own decision. None of the admins from the leagues make bans based on somebody elses say so, they make bans based on the information they have been provided with.”

But that’s the point isn’t it. I could ban them from my league, would people trust me? Some might, some won’t. Would I be benefitting the community? Well if they cheated, sure, call me a hero! If they don’t cheat, i’ve just killed a competitive team in the community (or at least that league). If other leagues also trusted my opinion, those players could be banned from all leagues of competitive play. That wouldn’t be about my league anymore, that would be about the community and the scene in general. As for this ban, if we did want to stay together as a team, other leagues might also ban the players based off the ETF2L admin’s decisions (I know Mick was pushing for a ban on Helliana in ED).

You also have to add the reputation factor. Even if proof has no been provided, that player is now known as a cheater. Teams might refuse to play when he’s playing, leagues might not allow to enter, multigaming organisations will refuse the team for bad rep. This alone leads me to beleive an element of justification should be provided. ETF2L is a powerful league, their say matters to the whole community. If I did run a league, and ETF2L provided evidence when they caught a cheater, that same cheater would be banned from my league.