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Vanilla + medlocks (+ maps, apparently)
Created 3rd May 2011 @ 15:07
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Quoted from grimbar
[…]
>implying that we had a fully developed meta with vanilla
nerd
why do you always come across like that when i see you post…
why do you like manly bottoms so much
vanilla+medic+equalizer
maps:
granary
badlands
gravelpit
gullywash
snakewater
turbine/freight/warmfront? -> vote system
Last edited by mimsku,
Quoted from Sketel
Just test the unlocks for balance and play with it. Variety in strategies and tactics will mean the metagame never stops developing (a good thing), so long as the variety is fun and balanced. Basically, judgement calls and rigorous testing of the weapons is needed.
Vanilla would simply mean the same tactics are run over and over.
no it wouldnt
Quoted from mimsku
vanilla+medic+equalizer
nyet
So people are suggesting that disallowing all unlocks would help increase the games e-sport viability, not turn people off competitive gaming in TF2 all together, and increase the number of meta game strategies?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*Breaths*
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That’s a really good joke, funniest I’ve heard in a while, it just split my- Wha? You’re being serious?
The fact of the matter is simple. After having experience with L4D, HoN, CoD, Quake, and SC competitive scenes, there is one thing that sticks out with competitive players.
Although better skilled then most other players, they are just as whiny stuck up little arses that will moan and cry about every new thing, stamp their feet and threaten to leave, then continue to keep playing anyway. 99% of these people complaining are going to keep playing with full unlocks or vannila. However resisting changes is the fastest way to kill a esport, due to a lack of new players, and a static metagame (Look at L4D).
Each unlock should be looked at individually in 3 key points.
Can a player realistically obtain said items without spending $$? (For instance the polycount hats should be discounted from play.)
Is this item a straight upgrade, and if so, does it add anything to the metagame. (I’d say Solemn Vow comes under this category)
If it isn’t a straight upgrade, does its use change the metagame in unwanted ways (For instance, although not OP, slower gameplay is generated by the natasha.)
Most of the banned weapons come under a 4th category:
Does it add something new to the gameplay that forces competitive players to adapt, and when this use surprises them and beats them, they rush to the forums and complain like spoilt little 3 year old brats?
The fact is simple. TF2 just went F2P. That means there is going to be a large influx of new players possibly looking towards the competitive side of this game. Players that already have reservations against esport rules being gamed by unadaptive minorities, the “No items, Fox only, Final Destination” effect. ETF2L should be asking themselves, are they going to keep up with the times, or cater to the vocal minority that aren’t going to leave anyway and be left in the dust.
Waiting for the wall-o-text replay someone is typing right now.
Going to be awesome.
Also want to throw out the fact that Quake has not changed much, if at all since release, at least not the meta-game.
Quoted from Yoursillyself
bla bla bla
Quoted from Waebi
are you actually serious. I’m raging so hard irl right now.
edit:
youre not being funny, youre not being clever, youre being an idiot who is repeating points that have been bashed over and over again in previous threads, its boring and pointless
Last edited by Dummy,
Quoted from herpderp
Ugh, can’t we just take a break from this for a month and enjoy a nice summer?
I would like to second this. Some people really need to get laid.
Quoted from CrashSite
Waiting for the wall-o-text replay someone is typing right now.
Going to be awesome.
Also want to throw out the fact that Quake has not changed much, if at all since release, at least not the meta-game.
Really? Considering the transitions between Vannila Q3A, OSP, CMPA, Quake 4 (That train of thought really went off a cliff, though it did give us some top players) Quake Live, there have been a lot of changes to the meta game, including the following.
Weapon changes (LG nerf, RG Nerf, RL buff), weapon spawn times, so many movement changes, spawn changes, item spawn changes, hitbox changes, map changes, etc etc etc. All of these had drastic effects on the meta game of high level quake
You know what all these changes have in common? Everyone bitched about them, said they were going to leave, then 3-6 months down the line agreed that it probably was for the best. 99% of competitive games have these cases. Apart from TF2, which the EU scene never gets to that maturity (Last time I checked the NA scene didn’t and FAN welding scouts are hardly dominating over there.)
A good competitive game, keeps in mind the issues and needs of competitive players, but keeps in mind mostly hard statistics gained through trial and error, having the balls to tell competitive players where to stick their threats to leave when needed.
The one season I competed in ESEA I got the most frags in the league that season as a FaN scout ;)
Quoted from Yoursillyself
[…]
Really? Considering the transitions between Vannila Q3A, OSP, CMPA, Quake 4 (That train of thought really went off a cliff, though it did give us some top players) Quake Live, there have been a lot of changes to the meta game, including the following.
Weapon changes (LG nerf, RG Nerf, RL buff), weapon spawn times, so many movement changes, spawn changes, item spawn changes, hitbox changes, map changes, etc etc etc. All of these had drastic effects on the meta game of high level quake
You know what all these changes have in common? Everyone bitched about them, said they were going to leave, then 3-6 months down the line agreed that it probably was for the best. 99% of competitive games have these cases. Apart from TF2, which the EU scene never gets to that maturity (Last time I checked the NA scene didn’t and FAN welding scouts are hardly dominating over there.)
A good competitive game, keeps in mind the issues and needs of competitive players, but keeps in mind mostly hard statistics gained through trial and error, having the balls to tell competitive players where to stick their threats to leave when needed.
FYI prem pussies as you say threatened to leave ETF2L, guess what
3 teams left in premiership
anyway besides that, the ‘metagame’ of quake duels in public and in tournaments is quite similar when compared to the metagame of public tf2 and comp. tf2. the changes introduced by the quake developers worked fine for both sides but the pro-public changes valve made (or rather changes aimed towards pubs as they bring in more $$) are not suitable to comp. tf2 because of the difference between these two
Last edited by Dummy,
Quoted from Dummy
[…]
FYI prem pussies as you say threatened to leave ETF2L, guess what
3 teams left in premiership
anyway besides that, the ‘metagame’ of quake duels in public and in tournaments is quite similar when compared to the metagame of public tf2 and comp. tf2. the changes introduced by the quake developers worked fine for both sides but the pro-public changes valve made (or rather changes aimed towards pubs as they bring in more $$) are not suitable to comp. tf2 because of the difference between these two
Yea, there are only 3 teams left, however that has nothing to do with weapon unlocks. It’s more due to the simple fact that for the amount of time it takes to stay at that level of play, being the best player out of all the teams in the game, gets you a set of headphones. With the current competitive scene, there isn’t really any incentive to stick around after you get to the top. Not to mention getting new teams to replace the previous one isn’t going to happen with vannila settings.
And I’m not saying we should all be playing on 32 man 2fort crits allowed saxon Hale servers for competitive play. There are a lot of things about default TF2 that do need changing for competitive play. However going overboard is worse then not banning enough stuff, since every esport relies on gaining new players to eventually replace the ones who’ll leave (Lets face it, everyone is going to stop playing TF2 at some point, whether due to RL commitments, or dying). A large portion of the game is being removes that IS suited for competitive play because people can’t adapt.
Quoted from Yoursillyself
[…]
Yea, there are only 3 teams left, however that has nothing to do with weapon unlocks. It’s more due to the simple fact that for the amount of time it takes to stay at that level of play, being the best player out of all the teams in the game, gets you a set of headphones. With the current competitive scene, there isn’t really any incentive to stick around after you get to the top. Not to mention getting new teams to replace the previous one isn’t going to happen with vannila settings.
And I’m not saying we should all be playing on 32 man 2fort crits allowed saxon Hale servers for competitive play. There are a lot of things about default TF2 that do need changing for competitive play. However going overboard is worse then not banning enough stuff, since every esport relies on gaining new players to eventually replace the ones who’ll leave (Lets face it, everyone is going to stop playing TF2 at some point, whether due to RL commitments, or dying). A large portion of the game is being removes that IS suited for competitive play because people can’t adapt.
it was because of the unlocks that a large part of the top teams didnt even sign up
and
it is NOT suited for competitive play, stop talking absolute drivel like you know anything about the game (even I know more and Im horrible yes inb4’d everyone xoxo) this isnt like COD which was not like QL which was not like CS
the claim that people cant adapt is incredibly stupid and ignorant, you could’ve at least read a couple of threads where everything you’ve said now has been disproved a dozen times before posting the same stuff that has been posted before because people cba to read
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