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Quoted from grimbar

[…]

Stating fact doesn’t constitute an attack on your person.

I could fetch you a random homeless person off the streets and force him to play and to watch the pros for 24/7 and he would not progress at ideal rate nor would his progress be favoured by the material he is exposed to.

As this doesn’t add to the topic I’ll leave it at that. Proper people know ways to reach me, however proper people probably don’t require my words anyway as they already know.

that “fact” is your opinion, however valid it is – dealwithit. also, I said combined with other methods, not alone :]

Just gonna say: Watching the ESEA finals didn’t seem so much ‘deep varied gameplay’ as much as ‘how to gay the opponent before they gay you’. Anyone who saw the Blight vs X6 last 2 rounds on Viaduct (with the sydney sleeper) will understand what I mean about gayness.

Quoted from xzr

I find it funny the unlock lovers still resist.

ESL is vanilla, Lans are vanilla, ESH is vanilla. Even pickups are becoming vanilla.

It’s the way forward. People will keep playing their vanilla games elsewhere if ETF2L doesn’t provide the ruleset to do so here. It’s a shame, we had some good times here.

Even though I’m usually not too fond of your style of posting and the hostility by which you defend vanilla gameplay (yet I sympathize with your side of the argument, obviously), what you’re saying ultimately is in line with the last paragraph of my previous post. Point being that we’re arguing while in reality TF2 already seems to have found its sweetspot.

We can exchange subjective opinions all day, and think that our side is more right than the other but truth is that vanilla seems to be more popular in the “truly” competitive regions of TF2 (read, the top). And like I said in response to Hildreth’s post, in the end, what you need is consistency amongst leagues. So for the good of TF2 I think it’s better for ETF2L to reconsider Vanilla, until we’ve reached a new compromise (if we ever will). I don’t see how different leagues with different rules will be a succesful idea in the long run.

Or do that weighted voting thing on which Skyride spent so much time yet didn’t get any kudos for! THIS ONE’S OUT TO YOU ADAM! BRRRUP!

The thing is, the only reason why things are becoming vanilla (the leagues, the lans), is because of the stubborness of several top end players who refuse to play anything but, and the leagues being too scared to lose a few top end teams. Fair enough… it’s their leagues / lans, and it’s obviously in their interests to protect their status. I truely believe that the vanilla ruleset is not the best ruleset available to us for this game.

It is easier to write the rules by going vanilla. I completely understand this part. And it keeps the stubborn members of the community happy. I do think that the vanilla ‘game mode’ is 1000 times better than a full unlock game mode. I like our class limits, I like our map choices. Timelimits, stop watch, all of these are great. But some people are completely ignorant if they cannot see how selective unlocks can bring so much to the game, for spectators and for players.

Is it worth complicating the rule list for these benefits? In my opinion, yes it is, but apparently, this isn’t in line with a large number of people.

Vanilla + medic + X + Y + Z + A + B + C.

Once you’ve read it a few times, you will know the rules, the only thing that would be required after that would be for the leagues to agree on a standard set, which can easily be done, if it wasn’t for the stuborness of some players, as mentioned above.

Something like, bonk on gravelpit. It allows for a scout which can help expertly co-ordinate attacks, it allows the world’s most newbie sticky traps to be cleared off your respawn door without having to sacrifice a player. It allows a resonably skilled and co-ordinated team to eliminate a well positioned sentry gun without having to pop their uber. The only downside to this unlock, which I wouldn’t even consider a downside, is that a scout can get damaged, hit bonk, and escape free of charge. So what? He still has to time his bonk escape pretty accurately, and it’s not like it’s the medic or anything…

Is there so much harm in allowing this unlock? We’ve played seasons with it, and then people want to take a step backwards.

In short, I’ll play vanilla np… just don’t think it is the best option available, and I think people will get a bored a lot quicker, reducing the competitive game’s life span.

Quoted from gryzor

while some monkey-boys

racist

Quoted from AcidReniX

The thing is, the only reason why things are becoming vanilla (the leagues, the lans), is because of the stubborness of several top end players who refuse to play anything but, and the leagues being too scared to lose a few top end teams. Fair enough… it’s their leagues / lans, and it’s obviously in their interests to protect their status. I truely believe that the vanilla ruleset is not the best ruleset available to us for this game.

I do not really care about what top teams want, I personally enjoy playing vanilla much more, since when you damage soldier he doesn’t take his magic stick and charges towards you or vanish escapes like ninja, he dies.
Quoted from gryzor

Vanilla is for cavemen who regress instead of progress. Same plagued previous fortress games and it’s embarrassing to see it happening in TF2.

Or… is it?

Not really.

It’s just so FOONY that the US top-teams actually manages this RIGHT NOW, even if it’s on TF2:s decline, while some monkey-boys think screaming “VANILLA!” in Europe is the only way to get accepted by the other intertube armchair pixelwarriors.

People can spout whatever reasons they want, in the end it turns out it’s because they’re not good enough to spend the time to learn to adapt to tactics on the fly and want the “same old” due to being lazy bastards. Let’s claim it’s “NOT FOONY” to make it impossible to counterargument. “This will work!”

No.

Why some kids would even want to associate themselves with this inbred bunch of donkeys is a question better left to a behavioral psychologist.

FOONY indeed, so we better lael some! COME ON, LAEL WITH ME!

The argument: “afraid to experiment, cba to spend time on other tactics, lala” comes mostly from people that could not manage to get out of div4 in +- 3 seasons, coincedence?

I guess your replay:
-I have life to do not to sit near pc and grind my div up
To which ill replay:
Then why do you care if you paly this game once in two weeks.

Quoted from gryzor

Vanilla is for cavemen who regress instead of progress. Same plagued previous fortress games and it’s embarrassing to see it happening in TF2.

Or… is it?

Not really.

It’s just so FOONY that the US top-teams actually manages this RIGHT NOW, even if it’s on TF2:s decline, while some monkey-boys think screaming “VANILLA!” in Europe is the only way to get accepted by the other intertube armchair pixelwarriors.

People can spout whatever reasons they want, in the end it turns out it’s because they’re not good enough to spend the time to learn to adapt to tactics on the fly and want the “same old” due to being lazy bastards. Let’s claim it’s “NOT FOONY” to make it impossible to counterargument. “This will work!”

No.

Why some kids would even want to associate themselves with this inbred bunch of donkeys is a question better left to a behavioral psychologist.

FOONY indeed, so we better lael some! COME ON, LAEL WITH ME!

Ok, gryzor. Your team have cinnamon and you can use it whenever you want in season 9. I see only loses in fucking div5. Why don’t you use unlockables to actually win games?
http://www.pown.it/1681