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Quoted from FUN POLICE RUINS TF2

Just a quick question, why isn’t it possible to just get the admins plus a few people from each side of the argument (should be prem/div 1 only tbh) to sit down on steam/irc/mumble/whatever and just talk it out? If you can come to a compromise then that’s awesome, if not then you’ll just have to agree to disagree and go your separate ways because this argument is going to just go on and on otherwise.

They already have. Both parties have come to the unfortunate agreement that they disagree and moved on. Not a single person whos opinion actually matters is still discussing this.

Quoted from FUN POLICE RUINS TF2

If that’s the case then this thread should just be closed as the admins have made up their mind, and there’s very little that’ll change them this soon.

+frag

That linked article was the first worthwhile read on these forums the past 600 days or so. Thanks.

Ignoring the fact that everyone has access to those weapons, but ok.

No offense, but do you need a definition on the idiom “to have access to something”, Eledorian? It means that the particular something is accessible, aka obtainable by everyone, especially with the implementing of the trading system.

This thread has outlived it’s purpose anyway. Whatever it was. A lock would be the best thing to do before an even bigger fanboy flamewar emerges.

blame :I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioyNF9W6eqU

Quoted from CrashSite

[…]

Don’t think that was what he was implying. It is that if one team wants to use unlock, lets say DR, and the other team, who although likes unlocks, does not play with DR at ALL will of course ban it thinking that the other team has a strat involving it. All this does is mean that only unlocks everyone agrees on will be used, whether this is a bad thing is up for interpretation, as it would basically end up with medic locks + equaliser and that will be about it I am guessing, as no two teams would deiced on anything else, if suggested by the other team.

Also there is the point of it is one group or the other. It is equally valid to say that it wrong to force ppl to play without unlocks as that is what will happen as stated above.

bottom line: If 2 teams could agree on ceratin unlocks they’d _evantually_ get to an agreement which means vanilla + equalizer ( that’s what you said, not me. )

for your 2nd paragraph:
did you read my posts at all? -_-
It’s not wrong to force them playing without unlocks because of the fact no one has ever complained about such a thing ( correct me if I’m wrong ofc ), EVERYONE are used to playing like that, so why the fuck would you change it? :|
“not having fun playing / getting bored” – fucking go play css than or make your own league with these rules.
Just from talking to teams a month ago I could see everyone were excited from this season and said it’ll be the best etc, than this happens.

Quoted from Tikcus

[…]

You don’t

I can’t be bothered to go section by section through your post

Etf2l has not been vanilla since unlock were released there was no issues with unlocks till the sandman, I’m not going to repeat arguments against moving backwards there is no point

The current rule set has 330+ signups, and will be a good season, I guess how ESL signups go will dictate what people want

Care to explain how I don’t understand it? I was following exactly what you said :)
As far as I can see it, having that “cba going over what I said / explaining” means I “won” this arguement. ( still waiting for a decent post from you though since it will be coming :D )

Quoted from Tocsix

All you below division 2 should just stop writing because you have no clue how unlock affects the game on a higher level. All of you saying that the top teams don’t want unlocks because they can’t adapt are just stupid (I’m sorry to tell you the big news). The reason why a player is playing at the top in the first place is not some super awesome tactic that only works with vanilla weapons, neither is it the ability to use/aim with the vanilla weapons. The real reason is that they are able to adapt to an enemies move and use it to their advantage and with too many weapons this just get impossible and the game will become Random Fortress 2.

Anyway looking forward to a fun season of tf2 in ESL, have fun with you community league without most of the top teams.

+1 basically ( even though should have said it in a nicer way, still true :/ )

Quoted from TopGear

Retsh0ck I think your missing the point here. You cant keep 2 groups happy with totally opposing viewpoints. One group wants vanilla+medlocks, other wants new features you either create 2 leagues or compromise

I’ll only comment on that because the other post is just being stupid in my opinion ( has nothing to do with the medic unlocks being first? they’re the only balanced ones – for example the crossbow shit isn’t. :| );
Yes, it’s true you can’t make 2 groups “happy” with opposing viewpoints. I AGREE.
BUT ( and I will write it again because you guys are either not smart or just ignoring this ) when was the last time someone got angry / said anything about vanilla? people are used to play like this, I can’t remember ever hearing someone raging that he doesn’t have his GRU or w/e.

And lets go back abit, if you’re not agreeing with the paragraph above.
Why should the group that rathers having unlocks gets to have the league like they want to?
Going back to what Agron has written, most people that do want the unlocks or w/e are new players here, that is having their first seasons here, how exactly is it fair to listen to players who are new here and not to players who are already playing here for a long time ( and making the league the successful league it was all these seasons ).

since, like other people wrote here, most lower div teams are in the ‘idc’ mode, they won’t give a fuck about which unlocks, so what’s the problem having a league when you get the TOP teams playing with vanilla ( like they want to ) and the lower div players to agree with themselves about what ever they want ( which’ll be the same as cinnamon since they’re all in the “idc” mode ).