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ETF2L: The problem
Created 6th March 2011 @ 14:50
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Yes Retsh0ck, it is pretty simple.
The league lays out what unlocks are allowed and then the teams adhere to the league rules. If the teams are unhappy about which unlocks are allowed in the list of allowed unlocks then either they don’t play in the league or they voice an opinion/concerns and do. Teams don’t dictate rules.
The main issue is which unlocks should and should not be allowed. Vanilla + medlocks is not specific enough. Will new teams/players know which medic unlocks are allowed from that statement? Some people want equalizer,bonk, sandvich etc what if a new unlock comes out everyone wants to use including vanilla supporters.
If you cant cope with a heavy eating a sandvich I suggest you stop playing and go out.
Quoted from Retsh0ck
It’s pretty simple, make vanilla+med locks as the ruleset and whoever wanna play with unlocks agree with the other team. That’ll be much easier – instead of forcing someone to have a change and play against/with new weapons, you could force them to play like they were used to, which has nothing wrong with it since no one ever complained at that(!).
Quoted from AcidReniX
[…]
If my team was the best in Europe using vanilla rules (See Dignitas WASM), and then not the best in Europe using ETF2L rules (See Dignitas ETF2L), it would make sense to try to promote vanilla rules as it is in their interest.
MY TEAM WAS THE BEST IN EUROPE WITH ETF2L RULES AND NOT THE BEST IN EUROPE WITH VANILLA RULES. I STILL WANT VANILLA TY PLS.
Quoted from AcidReniX
If my team was the best in Europe using vanilla rules (See Dignitas WASM), and then not the best in Europe using ETF2L rules (See Dignitas ETF2L), it would make sense to try to promote vanilla rules as it is in their interest.
Having played dignitas both on lan and online, you sir are full of bullshit :D
LAN games are way different from online ones. You would probably know if you’d ever attend a proper one ;)
Btw I do remember Dignitas winning i40 or some noob lan like that, with unlocks allowed? UH UH OH?
Quoted from Waebi
[…]
Yet you’re fine with forcing others to NOT use unlocks?
Yes, because that’s what they’ve been used to + NO ONE has complained and went like “omfg but I WANNA PLAY WITH THE DIRECT HIT IN THIS GAME FFS”.
Everyone’s used to these rules, if other people want to change they can go ahead and agree with themselves.
On the other side, forcing someone to have new unlocks and have this drastic change isn’t that fair if you ask me, since no one is used to it + you already have _MORE THAN_ enough teams complaining + boycotting ( which is even a bigger loss to the etf2l ) the league because of these changes.
Quoted from Krakyn
The “gentlemans agreement” previously in place in Prem/div 1 to all play with only the original medic unlocks* in effect created this two tier rule set you seem to be begging for. Because new teams were promoted in to the more restrictive set and had no inclination to play under it because they have too much fun outside it things fell to shit. No one followed it for a season and now a bunch of teams are loudly, public and with just a hint of too much protest throwing all the toys out the pram, taking their ball and going to play in ESL. Why exactly do you think things won’t be just as likely to end in a horrible mess with a lower level set for the cut off point?
The map pool has always changed each season with different maps being added or removed. Some of the nonsense that is getting spouted about this seasons is ridiculous. Warmfront is a reskin of an older map that featured in AFS, turbine is anything but new so you’re left with just Brazillion being truly new to this season and requiring totally new tactics to be invented. Lo and behold it’s in weeks 7 and 8, almost like the admins had planned it to give you more time to practice it. All of these maps have shown up in one off cups before they got to this point allowing for time to view and practice them. What else did you think these cups were for? Giving out pixelated trophies? If teams don’t have strategies for Turbine and warmfront it’s their own fault for getting to a point where they never look beyond granlands for pcws (and everyone elses for indulging them) and pressumably deleting the old strategy files they must of had for them. If you dislike the choices, congratulations, you’ve encountered the most basic factor in human interaction, everyone agrees on nothing. DEAL WITH IT.
ETF2L is the best league for TF2 in europe, if it wasn’t the former Prem teams wouldn’t have so desperately tried to enforce their rule set, have made such a fuss about going to ESL or now be so obviously trying to promote a league they have all slated and mocked for years in the hope people will sign up to play and watch them. The loss of these teams won’t kill it. It’s key and strongest points are in it’s easy of use, helpful and easy to contact admins (most of the time anyway) and it’s mostly common sense rules (have fun with no mercs ever in ESL guys). None of these things have changed, why exactly will the league die?
For the love of fuck people stop acting like you’re dropping truth bombs when you’re just reposting the repost of a reposted idea. It’s not going to change things and it makes you look like idiots.
If TF2 was going to make it big in esports it would have by now, so there’s no need to worry about the effect of this split on it’s future.
*You’re going to need a new shitty name for your rule set what with several other medic unlocks out there that you don’t like and won’t play with, it looked somewhat silly going through it each time on the ESL news post.
i couldnt have worked it out any better.
this and only this.
oh and btw:
i seriously doubt, that all “top teams” will move to esl.
Quoted from TopGear
Yes Retsh0ck, it is pretty simple.
The league lays out what unlocks are allowed and then the teams adhere to the league rules. If the teams are unhappy about which unlocks are allowed in the list of allowed unlocks then either they don’t play in the league or they voice an opinion/concerns and do. Teams don’t dictate rules.
The main issue is which unlocks should and should not be allowed. Vanilla + medlocks is not specific enough. Will new teams/players know which medic unlocks are allowed from that statement? Some people want equalizer,bonk, sandvich etc what if a new unlock comes out everyone wants to use including vanilla supporters.
If you cant cope with a heavy eating a sandvich I suggest you stop playing and go out.
If the teams were to dicate the rules we wouldn’t have this argument, would we? :)
I didn’t say the teams dicate the rules ( did I even say something close to that? :p ), and yes it’s true, teams aren’t participating in this league because of the rules.
The vanilla + med locks is pretty much obvious to everyone but you I guess? :/ If you want to make it more specific to a certain weapon than that’s not a problem, and if needed it will be done, although it’s not since the admins are still being stubborn about their ruleset.
but I guess ETF2L admins ( which is the audience I’m refering to :D ) know what I mean when I say vanilla + med unlocks.
Whoever want equalizer, bonk, sandwich CAN HAVE IT if they agree with the other team about the rules. If not, they play with the vanilla + med locks ruleset. Which is quite conventional to do / ask for in season 9, since most people are used to certain gameplay ( that for the record no one has ever complained about when it came to weapons ).
——-
ALTHOUGH: if the ruleset is med unlocks + vanilla AND you have the opportunity to make a gentlemen’s agreement that they can play with 2 wranglers and what not ( just an example; I meant playing with w/e unlocks they choose basically ) than it is much better and will make it more comfortable for everyone + for ETF2L ( not losing _top_ teams ).
Last edited by Retsh0ck,
Quoted from Vladi
[…]
oh and btw:
i seriously doubt, that all “top teams” will move to esl.
Correct me if i’m wrong but all top teams were already playing in esl (except dignitas). Few of them dropped out ofc.
For the love of god people its ‘Bazillion’, ie a lot more than a billion etc, not, I repeat, NOT, ‘Brazillion’, which is a haircut girls get for their, ahem, yeah anyway.
Maybe you should all stfu :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Quoted from minimoose
Maybe you should all stfu :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I quite enjoy looking at what I type and believing I am the smartest person on this forum thank you very much sir.
Quoted from crzfst
[…]
Correct me if i’m wrong but all top teams were already playing in esl (except dignitas). Few of them dropped out ofc.
Some teams did, but the games often got dropped in favour of ETF2L so ESL was never really taken seriously, more as a pcw. Nobody ever followed it.
Quoted from Retsh0ck
It’s pretty simple, make vanilla+med locks as the ruleset and whoever wanna play with unlocks agree with the other team.
If you honestly believe a team will agree to allow you to use specific unlocks you’re misguided (granted lots of people are on this forum example a few pages back +1 byte – tikcus even though we wrote the same thing, but used different wording) They will simple go NO, because they will assume they can gain an advantage by stopping you using it.
That is forcing vanilla through the back door.
The current system that allows certain unlocks but teams can make an agreement to limit this or change unlocks is preferable.
Or Bytes suggestion that teams have to inform their opponents before the match starts they may be using unlocks from the ETF2L list, to allow other teams to prepare.
Forgetting this and moving to creating rules that unlocks must pass before being allowed in ETF2L this is a good idea, however if this happens all unlocks including medic unlocks must pass the same test, not just certain unlocks
Last edited by Tikcus,
Quoted from Tikcus
[…]
If you honestly believe a team will agree to allow you to use specific unlocks you’re misguided (granted lots of people are on this forum example a few pages back +1 byte – tikcus even though we wrote the same thing, but used different wording) They will simple go NO, because they will assume they can gain an advantage by stopping you using it.
That is forcing vanilla through the back door.
The current system that allows certain unlocks but teams can make an agreement to limit this or change unlocks is preferable.
Or Bytes suggestion that teams have to inform their opponents before the match starts they may be using unlocks from the ETF2L list, to allow other teams to prepare.
Forgetting this and moving to creating rules that unlocks must pass before being allowed in ETF2L this is a good idea, however if this happens all unlocks including medic unlocks must pass the same test, not just certain unlocks
So let me see if I understand. You said that if the team could choose than they’d say NO to other unlocks? ( that’s what you said! ) So how am I wrong here? :D People WANT to play with vanilla. ( and if you’re saying you want to play cinnamon or w/e the name is; try and agree with the other team to do so. )
“that is forcing vanilla through the back door”
Well, yes. :| you said it yourself, if people would have to choose than they’d go for vanilla and not cinnamon ( not specific unlocks, the cinnamon ones [ I didn’t bother seeing them ] ).
HOW IS THE CURRENT SYSTEM PREFERABLE IF YOU HAVE TEAMS QUITTING WITH THIS ONE WHILE USING THE “OLD” SYSTEM YOU WON’T? :|
That is preferable to you maybe.
How is byte’s suggestion making it any better? if the team is still avail to play with the unlocks they want while just “INFORMING” they will, what’s the difference? The team will be prepared? The situation will still be the same, it’ll change nothing. People already knew who’d play with unlocks, that’s not helping at all. ;|
I still can’t see how my idea is any bad. If you want to have a change – go to CSS / COD. Don’t ruin it for other players who are still having fun from the game as it is.
If you follow the ‘system’ I suggested, you could play like the game was played till now ( AGAIN, NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE VANILLA + MED UNLOCKS and went like “FUCK SAKES WHY CANT I USE WRANGLER” )
AND if you want to have the change, make your team agree on it and you could play by your cinnamon ruleset. This sounds perfectly fine to me, both sides are happy. If you wanna play with your cinnamon go for it, don’t force us to do so.
Last edited by Retsh0ck,
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