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draws please, no golden on map 1 and 2, only on map 3
Created 24th January 2011 @ 22:06
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Capturing last means fuck all, because in the next minute, your last can get easily raped and get your last capped…
OOOH SNAP…
Quoted from Admirable
This idea that we would have a never ending battle is amusing!
I’d love to see some actual stats on how many of the maps that went to golden cap weren’t settled within the 10 minutes this season…
I imagine it’s quite rare because the only time I’ve heard of it has been in the relegation playoffs and in the grand final, but I’d only be making an assumption there… just like the 10 minute rule :>
Then of the teams that won under the 10 minute rule, ask how many were satisfied with that victory? No one wants to win that way, let alone lose that way.
Anyone who watches or plays TF2 knows that capturing the middle point means exactly fuck all. Control points are lost and won in seconds.
Hell, how many times have we seen Team Dignitas lose middle only to wipe their opponents at spire and push right back to the enemy last?
Winning for holding middle is like winning for being awarded a throw-in; it has no relation to scoring a goal, although it may lead to one.
Let’s not fool ourselves that we are saving people’s precious time with this arbitrary 10 minute limit. It’s pointless rule made up by pencil pushers :S
Agree with you, but there arnt many maps that have the fast rounds like badlands, if there is not a clean sweep on granary mid a round often goes over 10 min. So looking at it like that would perhaps mean that a team didnt win by turtling, but rather no one managed to cap last. Removing the 10 min thingie would mean the team who finally cba will loose.
Yesterday i were glad that we had the 10 min rule though, cuz i would not have liked to play that insanly boring map anymore.
For the dignitas argument, caping mid at round start might not mean a lot, but holding mid after 10 min is more accurate than be the first one to take it.
tl; dr play open maps that allow for pushing in all directions.
lr; dr 2: play koth, prolly a better game mode than normal cp.
golden-DM:
scout v scout x2
soldier v soldier x2
demo v demo
medic v medic
each dm win counts as a team point, best of 6, if not decided by then…sudden death golden-dm! oooOOooOoOOOOOOOoooo GOGOGOGOGO xDDD
gg lastnight, was fun to watch
Just let a boston basher melee round decide the outcome!
Copy & Paste from the other thread –
Golden Cap rounds exist to determine a winner no matter what. Because of this they have a timelimit as well as the mid point rule. The timelimit guarantees that the match doesn’t go on indefinitely (the same reason we have the 15 minute delay rule for the start of the game). The reason for the mid point rule is as follows –
Whilst a round is underway there is a winning team and a losing team. The winning team is the one that currently holds the most control points. After the mid point battle, the team that holds mid is the winning team. If we were to say ‘first to cap mid wins’, then you can see how this immediately applies to the winning team. Obviously, if a team captures all points, they win the round. Common sense.
Including a timelimit means that we reward the winning team (the one who holds the most capture points) with the victory. That sounds very fair to me.
On the point of turtling, if the winning team decides to turtle, then how is that unfair? They’ve done everything right to gain the advantage in the round, by capturing mid and possibly fourth as well, as long as they hold these then they are clearly still the best team in that round.
If there is a timelimit 10 reset without the mid point rule, then any team that loses mid and fourth will just turtle last for the remainder of the 10 minutes. This rewards the team which is doing worst (i.e. the one with the least control points held). They can defend without fear of loss, because a successful defence just forces the map to be reset again.
Forcing the defending team to attack means that we force them to prove that they’re the better team by beating the attacking team for control of one or two CPs. Forcing the attacking team to attack last means that we force them to risk any advantage they’ve gained through their better play in order to guarantee victory.
Of course all victory conditions in any sport are completely arbitrary, if football games were played to 120 minutes then a team that won 2-1 in 90 minutes might end up losing 3-2 in 120. Playing TF2 for 30 minutes means a team can win 3-2 with their final capture happening in the last 2 minutes, playing for 45 minutes might have meant they lost 4-3. Both teams have the same chance and method of winning no matter what the timelimit.
There are two ways to do a best of 3 when draws on a map are taken into account:
1) True Best Of 3. http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9445/true3l.jpg
It works on a points system over all 3 maps, the key here is that if the first map is won, and the second map is drawn, the third map is still played to give the losing team a chance to tie up the match (They need to WIN, not draw or lose), at which point the result is either a draw, or a decider / golden cap is needed. It comes down to the best result over the 3 games.
2) Two + decider http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2593/2plusd.jpg
In this format, the decider map is only played when the points gained are equal. This isn’t a best of 3, this is a best of 2 that uses a decider map in the event of a tie game. It is effectively a race to be the first team to reach 4 or more points (3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss). If no team reaches 4+ points after two maps, the third map is played. If points are equal at the end of three maps, the game is a tie / golden cap is needed.
There is another third way to do a best of 3. This is the option if draws on a map are not allowed:
3) No Draws BO3 http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1779/nodraw.jpg
I beleive this is the current ETF2L system. Each map is outright decided by a golden cap. The match result is then very simply to calculate. Whoever wins two maps, wins the series.
There isn’t really a better system. They are just three ways of doing things. You could say that option number 2, encourages turtling on the second map, if a team has won the first. This is because if the game is tied, they will win the series. At the same time, the first option will often result in more golden caps being played as there are more ways for the overall result to be a draw. The current system could have 3 golden caps per match
Of course, there is another way to play the game. You could skip the golden cap round, and just simply state that if scores are tied at the end of the game, the team holding the most capture points (e.g. middle) are deemed to be the winners.
Not that I would suggest implementing this… but it’s an option.
The 30 minute map should always be the same for every match. You can’t apply conditional rules to it that may or may not count depending on the status at the end of those 30 minutes. Any new rules (such as the golden cap) should only apply to extra timed added after those 30 minutes.
Away caps!
(Assuming the current map pool) Each team picks one map and eliminates 1 map. Of the remaining 2, the admins (or something impartial :p) decide which will be the decider.
First 2 maps count as home/away legs, so if it’s [A 2-2 B] on team A’s map and [A 1-1 B] on team B’s map, team B wins.
If after 2 legs the teams are still tied, the decider is played with timelimit 0 winlimit 2.
:D
Here is my proposal if no teams have capped at the end of a GC round:
What to do when both teams are pussies? Hold a penalty shoot out.
1. Change map to bball
2. Attacking team “shoots” first, with a soldier rjing onto the ring with intel.
3. The defending team chooses a goalkeeper to prevent the goal from happening. He has one chance to airshot the shooter.
4. The attack/defence then switches. The goalkeeper remains the same throughout the shootout, with the attacking team choosing the order of the shooters from the remaining 5 players (i.e. can’t choose keeper).
5. Repeat until one team has capped the most intel out of the 5 shooters.
Last edited by kuma,
Quoted from kuma
Here is my proposal if no teams have capped at the end of a GC round:
What to do when both teams are pussies? Hold a penalty shoot out.
1. Change map to bball
2. Attacking team “shoots” first, with a soldier rjing onto the ring with intel.
3. The defending team chooses a goalkeeper to prevent the goal from happening. He has one chance to airshot the shooter.
4. The attack/defence then switches. The goalkeeper remains the same throughout the shootout, with the attacking team choosing the order of the shooters from the remaining 5 players (i.e. can’t choose keeper).
5. Repeat until one team has capped the most intel out of the 5 shooters.
+1
Why should the golden cap round have a timelimit? “so it doesnt go on for an infinite amount of time” is a bad reason imo. Take Quake Live/Cod4/CSS, these can all go on infinitely as well.
I tried to find the SS of my mates ED game where the score was 47-45 (or somthing along those lines). The game was so close that it took the same amount of rounds as 3 games of CSS. (about 3 hours)
Why shouldn’t the same thing happen in TF2, why do we need the timelimit?
Last edited by Greg,
Quoted from CanFo
[…]
141 maps ended in a golden cap this season (including the play-offs)
109 of these (or 77,3 %) have been decided by one team capping all 5 points
15 (or 10,64 %) ended in a stalemate after 10 minutes, the team that held mid won
15 screenshots have been missing so I could not tell if one team capped all 5 points
2 (or 1,42 %) golden cap wins have been entered incorrectly :3So of the 124 maps that have been submitted correctly, ~ 12 % ended in a stalemate.
(no liability assumed)
i bet the 15 stalemate hold mid wins happened all on Premdiv and Div1 and Div2
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