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Quoted from Waster

We could also just let everyone pay 5 euro a month and pay for a decent AC team for example. Or we can use anti cheat clients.

Yes please.

Quoted from reactioN

play esl

no cheaters and no innocent bans ( not implying etf2l bans innocent people. just for you whiners)

Are you sure? Jazzman were banned for having the pldx tool in his tf folder, but he was later unbanned ;)

I would like to preface this post with the knowledge that the contents of this will likely get me banned from ETF2L for whatever length of time the admins involved deem appropriate. I am aware of this and I fully accept whatever punishment is chosen, based on my comments below.

For the record, ever since I stepped down from being a Head Admin of ETF2L at the end of July 2010, I remained in place as a ‘non-visible’ Anti-Cheat Admin. What this meant was that I was part of the team and able to discuss and assist in viewing demos where possible. Unfortunately I haven’t always had a huge amount of time to help, since I run 2 businesses in the UK and up until very recently, I was also involved in running TF2 TV. In addition to the above, I have recently been involved in discussions with Byte about helping him improve ETF2L Radio and with Racio about rejoining the ETF2L team to assist with sponsorship/PR.

So please, be aware that I am risking an awful lot in both the game that I enjoy, the people I’m friends with and the league that I care about the most. This has not been an easy decision for me to make, however reading Kritzonite’s post made my mind up for me and I have a lot of respect for the time he spent eloquently getting across his point of view.

I do not know Beavern, his teammates, his team or anything about him. I am making this statement because I am utterly shocked and dismayed at the decision that was made by the AC team and I feel that in order to improve the workings of the ETF2L AC Team (and any other leagues in the future), changes need to be made and better implementation needs to be put into place.

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(note – this text refers to the ONE and only demo that was discussed in the AC Admin forum about Beavern. If other evidence was gathered, it was not made clear to all AC Admins. As already referenced by others in this post, you can find the demo on this match page – http://etf2l.org/matches/24313/ )

Unfortunately I was not involved in the initial discussion with the other AC Admins in regards to this ban. This month so far has been particularly busy for my main business and I’ve had very little time to do anything apart from work and play a few games in the evenings.

A couple of weeks ago, I had some time to go through a few demos on the weekend. I looked at a couple in particular, including Beavern’s demo. At the time I saw perhaps 3-4 things in the demo that were suspicious, however all but one of them were easily explainable as an issue arising from the voice communication of another player – something that we as AC admins cannot hear, yet MUST factor in when looking at a demo.

I brought up my concerns with one of the Head Admins and whilst he listened, no further action really came from our discussion. Likewise, I didn’t have a lot of time to follow it up due to being busy, as previously mentioned. I was deeply disappointed to find Beavern banned recently and again I brought it up with a couple of admins, questioning the decision. I was told that all the admins that viewed the demo agreed that Beavern had cheated and thus he was banned.

This did not sit right with me and as such I have spent the last 10 days reviewing the one demo which was on the ETF2L AC Admin’s forum, many times. No matter how many times I watch it, I am still 110% convinced that there is nowhere near enough evidence to ban a player from this single demo.

One of the most important things I noticed is that Beavern reacts a lot by actually listening to sounds around him. Coming from an L4D background, this is a vital skill to have and its something that so many TF2 players miss when they’re herp derping around a map. By listening to the sounds around you, you can gather so much information on what your opponents are doing that it can often give you a simple positional advantage. If this information was wrongly understood by other AC Admins, then I would strongly question their position in the team. (Please note – I am not at all suggesting this ban was made on that, just that it was the strongest part of his gameplay that I noticed.)

As for the other AC Admins themselves, I do not in any way want to insult them as people or individuals. Three of them are people I would consider friends and as such I hope that my post here doesn’t jeopardise that – however if it does, I’d like to remind them that honesty and admitting a mistake is much more important than hiding and doing nothing about it.

I feel that one of the biggest issues with the way the current AC Admin team works, is that a demo is posted in the AC Admin forum, then people will review it and give their opinions in comments below, often including ticks. By doing this, you instantly defeat the purpose of being impartial because someone that reviews the demo will already have their mind somewhat prejudiced by reading the comments from his peers. Whenever I was reviewing demos from players, I always tried my hardest to only download the demo and not read any comments after the initial post until I had watched the demo in full. I felt this was the fairest way I could possibly do it, however it’s not perfect by any means.

A better system would be fantastic and it must be discussed seriously and openly. However, in my opinion, a good training programme for new/prospective AC Admins would be even better. If I had the spare time to set this up, I would happily do this but unfortunately it’s just not feasible for me to dedicate extra hours which I don’t have.

I dearly hope that Beavern is given another chance to play in this league, although I’m unconvinced that ETF2L as a league is going to have the balls to actually unban someone, even if they too genuinely believe that they have made a mistake.

For the sake of the future guys, please look at the whole AC process in more detail, please make sure all AC admins have appropriate training, please be more transparent with what you’re doing and above all else – please be honest. I know you’re all volunteers and I love all of you guys for putting the effort in, but remember that by volunteering you do so to help people.

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I’m sorry if this statement causes any problems or offends anybody. As I mentioned at the very start, I was motivated to speak out and stop sitting on my hands by the quality and thought that Kritzonite put into his post.

My name is Matt ‘d2m’ Davies and I’m an ex ETF2L Head Admin, (now)ex-AC Admin – with over 10 years of AC experience across multiple games – including TFC and TF2, founding partner in TF2 TV and someone that wants to see ETF2L excel properly as the best European TF2 league.

Snowie/Dave/Racio – If you do ban me, I respect your decision and will accept the punishment you deem fit. I hope you can understand why I posted this and I welcome any discussion you want to have with me on Steam regarding this.

Quoted from Skyride

Therefore rather than claim ignorance, they scramble to have an opinion which is unanimously “NOT A CHEATER” instead of “I have no fucking idea”. Noreille (spelling?) is a perfect example. He was in a team with 3 of the most blatant hackers in the history of european TF2 – one of whom has actually admitted cheating – and still claims they are innocent.

what the hell are you talking about , the only who never cheated is quad , that’s my point of view(and the point of view of a lot of people) , i agree with the fact the other guys cheated , stay in context , try to know what u’r talking about plz
kthxbye

Nice post Kritzonite , intelligent and constructive

Quoted from d2m

-snip-

Very good and insightful post. Massive respect to you for posting this.

D2M unfortunately your post doesn’t surprise me, for as good as the AC admin’s intentions are, its human based and can be biased

Respect to D2M