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Quoted from tf2 is dead

im fucking scared, i got banned as innocent once so what keeps them from banning me again in the future or adding time to my ban. they are a plague on etf2l and they should fuck off. i dont know what kind of people they are in the ACT but somehow i have the image of them being 12 yo kiddies

Lenny, you’ve admitted to admins that you’ve hacked, kindly, get lost with all your posts, we really couldn’t care less.

Quoted from demsii

[…]

Either that or you apparantly don’t want to get what I’m saying .. I think I was rather lenient so far, but oh my god.. You should also try reading, I said banning cheaters(!) = reduced cheating (because you have less cheaters playing in the league since they’re banned, who’d have thought that would mean you have less cheaters in the league!?). Plus I said banning CHEATERS(!) should be/is a goal of the AC team which is one of the foundations that it was ever created.

I’m gonna guess you’re gonna misunderstand everything I said above, so I’ll make it simple for you by copying what you said / think I’m saying:

“bans = reduced cheating, therefore AC admins should strive for (=have a goal of) banning cheaters”

Black and white or not, it’s the realistic truth. If you ban cheaters you have less cheaters in your league, I don’t even see how you could disagree with that.

I never said you were an admin so you could kiss other people’s asses, apparantly you completely missed the point once again. I’m questioning why you are “part of team” if you don’t even have faith or support the team you’re part of. And me pointing out you do fuck all for etf2l and aren’t active enough to start with to be an admin is to question why you are a etf2l admin in the first place, nothing more, nothing less.

i give up. just read my previous posts and maybe you’ll get what i’m saying. probably not, but i hope so.

on the account of personal attacks, i’m nothing but amused :D just stop mad bro.

edit: well, ok i think i’m pretty flattered that you think my admin status is so important, so thanks for the confidence boost<3

AC Thread 101
1.Make a vague point, but phrase it in an aggressive way
2.Wait for someone to reply
3.Accuse them of missing the point, post something else vague in reply
4.Wait for Reply
5.Personal attack and another vague point
6.Rinse & Repeat

Quoted from demsii

[…]

You should’ve given up when I was being diplomatic saying “I guess I understand what you mean”, yet you insisted on continuing a pointless debate with your views.

Personal attacks? Either you have no clue what personal attacks are or you get offended by the facts, either way says something about you.

And you thinking your adminship is not important for the biggest league in Europe is rather worrying aswell, also seeing you represent a larger group .. it’s sad really that someone like you is actually given the position of admin and worries me for the future of this league and tf2 all together.

Now you do step 6

Its about time ETF2L enforced an anti-cheat program.

Quoted from howdeh

Its about time ETF2L enforced an anti-cheat program.

As I said before:

If you know one that is available and not total shite, do tell.

In regards to the original post: This is an excellent post and you make your point well, but I think you’re villainising the ac team a bit unjustly, painting them as some corrupt government getting away with banning people for personal profit, and big shady meetings. I think you’re giving people too much credit for duplicity and not addressing simple things like peer pressure and human mistakes.

I don’t really come from an anti-cheat background, more of a bug testing background. It was a similar setup to the etf2l ac team, in that it was a secret extra responsibility, we had our forums of communication and we worked in unison with the coders. You say power corrupts, and this is absolutely true, but I don’t think it applies in quite the way you say. It is far more likely that members of the ac team use cheats and feel justified in doing so to see what actual cheats look like. In my bugtesting background I frequently abused bugs because i was given this responsibility to find bugs, and I would also withold reporting some of the more useful but not gamebreaking bugs, under the pretense of finding more bugs. I should point out too, I am an unbelievably nice guy, and I was also incredibly good at my job. Any ac member worth their salt will have a dummy account to test various bots out on (any pleasure in owning pubs will purely be coincidental), which will gave them far more insight into what cheating looks like. In my opinion it’s unlikely that the corruption will be getting rid of good players for their team, like you suggest.

A far more likely model is the most simple: AC members are real people, with limited time. They signed up for the extra responsibility and the thrill of catching cheaters, and found themselves in a different position than they thought they would be in – now they have to work and communicate in a team of people. They have to be diplomatic and respect other people’s opinions. They might think someone could be innocent, but everyone they talk to says the person is guilty and grudgingly go along with it. During my bugtesting I often let things pass unbalanced, simply because the coder was doing a good job and I didn’t want to demotivate them or have them burn out with extra red tape. It’s very likely a similar situation in the AC team.

These are people with limited time and with outside forces swaying their decisions. If they play someone who is too good for their division, chances are that’s the demo that they’ll watch. If someone says it’s suspicious, they’ll change their tone to say similarly. This isn’t corruption – this is human nature.

Whether or not it is a good system is debatable, I’m certain there are improvements that can be made once the problems are highlighted and people actually figure out what they want and what they’re willing to pay for. Having watched the demo I’d say beavern is a casualty of the system, but note I’m saying the system, not the people in the AC team.

I also disagree with people saying that unbanning beavern would mean everyone would demand to be unbanned, but that’s kind of a letter/spirit of the law debate for another time. I hope this post was insightful!

Quoted from howdeh

Its about time ETF2L enforced an anti-cheat program.