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Quoted from demsii

[…]

Either that or you’re having a real hard time trying to understand what it says. Try re-reading it .. thought english was your native language :).

You’re (mostly) making a claim for the benefit effects of the GRU on the pace of TF2 based on the fact that the gloves make the heavy move around faster. This is a category mistake, as the two are not in an exclusive sphere of influence. Anything else you said was such a bad formulation of logic I didn’t acknowledge it.

No misunderstandings.

Quoted from kaidus

[…]

You’re (mostly) making a claim for the benefit effects of the GRU on the pace of TF2 based on the fact that the gloves make the heavy move around faster. This is a category mistake, and you are wrong about it. Anything else you said was such a bad formulation of logic I didn’t acknowledge it.

No misunderstandings.

If you actually had the time to pull your head out of your ass and read what I said, then you would see that I was pointing at maps where heavy was generally more accepted (like freight and gully), which, with the GRU, would make them faster paced maps if you’re a team that uses heavy on that map. I wasn’t speaking in GENERAL if people were to use heavy in granary for example. Are there still any misunderstandings now? Not that hard, is it son?
Besides, you’re talking about tf2 as if it’s some fast paced game, it isn’t. Heavy suits general tf2 playstyle perfectly (hello waiting 3 mins @ chokepoints).

Quoted from bainés

Pyro & Heavy limit 1.

classlimit 1!

Quoted from demsii

[…]

If you actually had the time to pull your head of your ass and read what I said, then you would see that I was pointing at maps where heavy was generally more accepted (like freight and gully), which, with the GRU, would make them faster paced maps if you’re a team that uses heavy on that map. I wasn’t speaking in GENERAL if people were to use heavy in granary for example. Are there still any misunderstandings now? Not that hard, is it son?

I already explained why it is a global issue that would still server to slow down gameplay on maps like freight and gully in my first (or second) post, but since you were too busy looking for holes in which to patronise me I guess you missed it. The heavy makes the class move “physically” faster. Take a freight mid battle, the only consequence on the “pace” of the game is that now the heavy gets to the mid battle more quickly so he can lock down his side of the map immediately. Pre-GRU, 2 soldiers arriving early could go aggressive and take a significant advantage because the heavy was slow to mid. Now that advantage is gone, so we are consistently left with the scenario in which the two soldiers do not go aggressive because there is no opening. Whilst the average speed of the players on the map goes up because the heavy is moving faster, the actual rate of interaction and displacement of standard “hold” positioning (ie. the pace of the game) is just as slow but can be termed “slower” in a quantative sense because this scenario will now arise more often. Granted qualitatively the sluggish pace remains consistent, I guarantee we’ll see more of these shitty scenarios if GRU is accepted.

Also l2manners. No need to resort to a bunch of (ironic, if I may say) insults and such.

Quoted from kaidus

[…]

I already explained why it is a global issue that would still server to slow down gameplay on maps like freight and gully in my first (or second) post, but since you were too busy looking for holes in which to patronise me I guess you missed it. The heavy makes the class move “physically” faster. Take a freight mid battle, the only consequence on the “pace” of the game is that now the heavy gets to the mid battle more quickly so he can lock down his side of the map immediately. Pre-GRU, 2 soldiers arriving early could go aggressive and take a significant advantage because the heavy was slow to mid. Now that advantage is gone, so we are consistently left with the scenario in which the two soldiers do not go aggressive because there is no opening. Whilst the average speed of the players on the map goes up because the heavy is moving faster, the actual rate of interaction and displacement of standard “hold” positioning (ie. the pace of the game) is just as slow but can be termed “slower” in a quantative sense because this scenario will now arise more often. Granted qualitatively the sluggish pace remains consistent, I guarantee we’ll see more of these shitty scenarios if GRU is accepted.

Also l2manners. No need to resort to a bunch of (ironic, if I may say) insults and such.

If you really believe that I wonder where you been playing the last 2 years.. A heavy doesn’t lock up freight middle, a demo does. Also there’s pretty much every roaming soldier that will jump in as soon as they see a chance wether the enemy team has a heavy or not. 2 soldiers going aggro to freight mid to take advantage? Really? You must show me this awesome tactic then, ‘cuz I pretty much see every clan use 1 soldier @ left and 1 soldier @ med. Come on kaidus, even you can’t be this dumb..

Insults? I’m not insulting you anywhere and if you do see “pull your head out of your ass” as an insult I suggest you grow a pair. And even besides that, manners, coming from you? That’s rather rich. Unless you really expect to get treated different now ‘cuz you joined FB .. which is next to laughable pretty sad.

@ Spike Himself: je weet dat je tegenwoordig best wel iedereen irriteert met je posts right? Zeker een comment als “lol” is ook heel erg een post waard. Als je niks nuttigs te zeggen hebt, zeg dan niks, kthxbai.

Quoted from Exfane

having a-go again are we. dems the world rlly isnt that dark m8.
nobody wants a different treatment…………get your head out of your ass

l2manners please, this is an outrageous insult.

Quoted from demsii

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If you really believe that I wonder where you been playing the last 2 years.. A heavy doesn’t lock up freight middle, a demo does. Also there’s pretty much every roaming soldier that will jump in as soon as they see a chance wether the enemy team has a heavy or not. 2 soldiers going aggro to freight mid to take advantage? Really? You must show me this awesome tactic then, ‘cuz I pretty much see every clan use 1 soldier @ left and 1 soldier @ med. Come on kaidus, even you can’t be this dumb..

Insults? I’m not insulting you anywhere and if you do see “pull your head out of your ass” as an insult I suggest you grow a pair. And even besides that, manners, coming from you? That’s rather rich. Unless you really expect to get treated different now ‘cuz you joined FB .. which is next to laughable pretty sad.

@ Spike Himself: je weet dat je tegenwoordig best wel iedereen irriteert met je posts right? Zeker een comment als “lol” is ook heel erg een post waard. Als je niks nuttigs te zeggen hebt, zeg dan niks, kthxbai.

They go over the middle of the map, not necesarily the middle control point. Tell me how does being a pedant help any discussion? There’s a common rule in formal debate where if it looks like your opponent has made a blundering error, it is more likely you’ve just misunderstood or interrupted what they’ve said. Granted this isn’t a formal debate, but you’d do well to apply that rule as it would save us a lot of paragraphs. What you said isn’t even relevant to the heavy/GRU debate as both involve quick, aggressive soldiers that take advantage of the heavy’s speed.

Also, I don’t know why you are making this so personal. I’ve literally never had a conversation with you beyond this discussion, so how you can draw such judgements of my character based off the fact I politely asked you to not be so aggressive (which is what I meant by insults, by the way. It may not be “insulting” but it creates a very negative atmosphere for what should, essentially, be a very calm debate. People should be encouraged to debate things like this even if some others tire of it, and that kind of attitude makes it a total ballache) is just beyond me.

Quoted from kaidus

[…]

They go over the middle of the map, not necesarily the middle control point. Tell me how does being a pedant help any discussion? There’s a common rule in formal debate where if it looks like your opponent has made a blundering error, it is more likely you’ve just misunderstood or interrupted what they’ve said. Granted this isn’t a formal debate, but you’d do well to apply that rule as it would save us a lot of paragraphs. What you said isn’t even relevant to the heavy/GRU debate as both involve quick, aggressive soldiers that take advantage of the heavy’s speed.

Also, I don’t know why you are making this so personal. I’ve literally never had a conversation with you beyond this discussion, so how you can draw such judgements of my character based off the fact I politely asked you to not be so aggressive (which is what I meant by insults, by the way). It may not be “insulting” but it creates a very negative atmosphere for what should, essentially, be a very calm debate.

I kinda think you lost track of the conversation yourself. Besides that, as a great man once said “I’m allergic to stupid shit”. This might cause me to react in the same exact manner. I’m glad you’re only “formal” whenever it suits your needs however. There is also a very easy way to make sure you don’t get upset, you don’t start the “debate” at all.

You literally never had a conversation with me before? Quite a selective memory we suddenly have, do we? If I never had a conversation with you before, I probably even would’ve reacted differently even when my views would differ. And like I said, if you’re feeling uncomfortable with the “conversation”, there’s a very easy way to solve it, you stop replying or you avoid it.