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I don’t like a heavy on mid. I’m a scout. The last thing I want is a heavy shooting at me.

But that’s besides the point. Just because I don’t like playing against something doesn’t mean you should make it unviable. That’s just cowardly and stupid. Instead you learn to adapt.

Sneis, your post a few pages back is totally wrong btw. All but the sandman were banned after their nerfs. The sandman stayed banned. The calls to have them banned were mentioned before the nerfs. Once the changes were made, people changed the ‘it’s overpowered’ argument to ‘it’s just annoying’. Not a valid excuse as I’ve said before, there are many things that are really annoying… but just because they are default… they are allowed. Doesn’t make sense tbh. (I find sentry guns, demomen, snipers and spies quite annoying tbh).

Originally people were saying some of the listed weapons were too powerful. Sandman stunned a player leaving them completely vunerable. The click of 1 button had no trade off. It prevented flanks because a player wouldn’t want to get stunned by a scout and the scout gets a free kill. These were the reasons given. They partly addressed these. Made it so the sandman has a HP trade off, making him a 1 hit for a demoman’s pipe… 1 hit for a close range rocket… 1 hit for a FaN shot (maybe scatter?). They nerfed the stun effect so you could still move, and also nerfed it so it stuns the player less time if they are close to you when you’re hit with the ball.

The community asked for these. Then the argument turned to ‘stuns don’t belong in tf2’ with no reasons given for ‘er… why not?’. The only shit I ever here is ‘Oh it slows the game down’… well then remove EVERYTHING that slows the game down. SGs, Snipers, Heavies, choke points…. Obviously that’s stupid. Anyway, just making a point. (And for the record, I wouldn’t use sandman, i don’t think it’s a good trade off personally, and I don’t think many good scouts would use it either, not after they start getting 1 hit).

The FaN argument started because people called it overpowered. I don’t agree with that, but whatever… Valve listened to these players who called it overpowered, they removed the most argued feature of the weapon, the ‘lift and stun’ shot. They completely changed how the gun works, changed it’s uses. Infact, it has pretty much become worse than the scattergun by a long shot. But then it gets banned because ‘it’s annoying’.

TDH is banned because it’s OP, and because it’s annoying. “The weapon stops soldiers from jumping!”. Woah wait… So we banned the gunboats because it encouraged soldiers to jump on the enemy team too much… but we ban the direct hit because it stops jumping soldiers too easily. It’s these kind of reasons why I argue these unlocks so much. Because the reasons are just straight up bullshit. I don’t actually care ‘too much’ if weapons are banned or allowed. Valve removed the minicrit which was 1 hitting scouts when they jumped… from the otherside of the map. This was the reason at the time why players wanted it banned. Not because it was better at hitting people in the air… it was because the minicrit meant that a rocket from the other side of the map could do 130+ damage if the target was airbourne because the minicrit negated the fall off damage over distance. Even then… people had the option to use the direct hit and decided they would much rather have the splash.. and that the direct hit was quite useless. People weren’t really running it much.

Natasha i can actually understand some of the arguments. I think one of the main issues is not having heavy limit 1. But do you know the best counter to a natasha heavy? A sasha heavy. Obviously you can run snipers, focus fire, but natasha is quite difficult to play against. Overpowered? Hmm don’t really think so. Maybe prior to the nerfs. BUT EVEN THEN… when Sommie, Reimu and co were around, I was using natasha as heavy, and these ‘pro heavies’ states that natasha simply wasn’t as good. It didn’t do the damage output. They chose not to use the gun and these were some of the best heavies in Europe.

Wow this turned into a wall. Was only meant to be a quick one.

Quoted from crzfst

[…]
Hi div6.

oh, my bad, didn’t realise I wasn’t allowed an opinion as a div 6 player, must’ve missed that particular rule. Why so afraid of variety, do you simply lack the versatility to change tactics on the fly?

I agree with Acid, but in my opinion these unlocks are getting out of hand and are just going to cause a lot of confusion for new people to follow.

I’d choose Vanilla + medlocks, on the grounds that it’s just easy to follow.

Quoted from WARHURYEAH

I’d choose Vanilla + medlocks, on the grounds that it’s just easy to follow.

Ban unlocks because people are stupid?

a White list will mean people wont even have to remember what is allowed or not, you could also add class limits to the cfg, so people don’t run 4 scouts by mistake (maybe leave medic unlimited, for the few times a medic will crash/timeout allowing another player to play medic till he returns

Quoted from Ched

Last thing I want to see is teams winning their divisions because they were able to defualt win their way to victory because of other team accidently using banned unlocks.

a White list will protect the stupid

Valve have always described games as more of a service than a product. I’d say they’re providing a fairly poor service if they are ruining the product in order to produce more sales. I am not against the game changing, if Valve had done things differently and introduced less unlocks with more in depth mechanics that changed the game for the better in a fair and fun way, then I would be strongly defending them.

Most of the updates did only introduce a few weapons, until we reached the polycount pack and the latest big update. You argue that the time between updates is long enough to judge the unlocks from the previous update although there are still many unlocks from the polycount pack that we could debate over now. After another update which has introduced more unlocks and more gimmick mechanics before we have had time to judge all the previous unlocks and their mechanics.

What most people must accept is that the majority of the new unlocks are not really ‘overpowered’, but they do not benefit the game. Their mechanics are too insignificant to cause any imbalance. However, by allowing them, we are just needlessly overcomplicating the game and detering newer players.

And yes, I was stupid for not remembering the possibility of using a whitelist. Although that is another stack of work for server hosts to worry about. Once an unlock is on a whitelist, it is very unlikely that it would ever make it off of that whitelist because nobody would be able to use it in PCWs etc. and we’d get more community whining as people moan at each other to change their whitelists so that they may test an unlock in their PCWs or whatever.

Quoted from Feneer

[…]
oh, my bad, didn’t realise I wasn’t allowed an opinion as a div 6 player, must’ve missed that particular rule. Why so afraid of variety, do you simply lack the versatility to change tactics on the fly?

you might have an opinion but frankly nobody cares

“This wont happen I dont think. 2 GRU Natascha heavies, for instance, will totally destroy a scout pair, forcing you to go sniper or spy. ”
2 demos totally destroyed the game so we use demilimit 1 now