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Quoted from Buffalo Bill

[…]

It got shouted out because people leave teams for a ton of reasons, and you can’t create a blanket rule “leave your team = punishment” since it would punish a LOT of people who did absolutely nothing wrong.

Most RL reasons are bullshit, it’s funny how very few clans that are winning ever drop and claim RL reasons. if there was a penalty for folding more wouldn’t fold
Punishing players is probably not needed, just punish Clan/team Leaders
Clan/team Leader signed up to the league, he/she should be responsible for making sure the Clan finishes the season.

If they are not confident of being able to do that, they probably shouldn’t sign up.
A season is not a long time to commit it’s only 9 weeks of playing.

More pointless stats from league table as of 13/12/10

Premier – 10% of teams dropped
Premier – 100% of new teams dropped
Premier – 0% of existing teams dropped
Div 1 – 10% of teams dropped
Div 1 – 0% of new teams dropped
Div 1 – 12.5% of existing teams dropped
Div 2 – 10% of teams dropped
Div 2 – 0% of new teams dropped
Div 2 – 11.76% of existing teams dropped
Div 3 – 23.33% of teams dropped
Div 3 – 37.5% of New teams dropped
Div 3 – 18.18% existing teams dropped

I couldn’t be bothered to do div 4-6 as there are too many teams, and more likely there were more additional teams replaced in the early part of the season when they dropped

*new team = never entered an etf2l league before as this team (new team created)

Quoted from DeNeusbeer

http://deneusbeer.nl/tf2/leaguedrops.jpg
Deduct as you see fit.

So it’s business as usual. Ergo, http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/NoWhining.jpg

Quoted from Tikcus

[…]

Most RL reasons are bullshit, it’s funny how very few clans that are winning ever drop and claim RL reasons. if there was a penalty for folding more wouldn’t fold
Punishing players is probably not needed, just punish Clan/team Leaders
Clan/team Leader signed up to the league, he/she should be responsible for making sure the Clan finishes the season.

If they are not confident of being able to do that, they probably shouldn’t sign up.
A season is not a long time to commit it’s only 9 weeks of playing.

Maybe the clan doesn’t do well because of those rl reasons and then drops, and it isn’t that they use rl as an excuse for doing poorly? :)

Sure, there are teams that do poorly and then drop with some excuse or other but from what I’ve seen most teams that drop and claim rl or whatever do actually do poorly because of those reasons.

And punishing the team/teamleaders results in the same problem. Backstabbing isn’t a privilege that only the teamleaders hold, there’s always people getting backstabbed by their players. That would result in them getting punished for someone else’s mistake(s).

And stop being so short sighted.

“If they are not confident of being able to do that, they probably shouldn’t sign up.
A season is not a long time to commit it’s only 9 weeks of playing.”

Utter nonsense. There’s always things happening that aren’t within your sphere of influence, and you can’t predict the future. Example of this being aNimus who got into some pretty big trouble due to Mont getting in a carcrash meaning they had to delay some officials while searching a replacement/waiting for Mont to get back. That is just one player, but what about the teams where multiple players get serious issues at the same time? How could they have known?

Just because you’re in one of the most stable teams in ETF2L doesn’t mean everybody else’s situation is the same.

Quoted from Monkeh

[…]

I understand all of your arguments from the last thread, I just dont agree with them.

Why cant you create a blanket rule? If a team cant make a wildcard date because of pc problems, they’ll get punished for something that isn’t ‘their fault’. A lot of teams are thusly punished.

Why cant we make joining a team mean something. If you join a team and you cant finish the season with them, maybe you shouldn’t have joined that team in the first place.

The fact you joined a particular team could maybe be a sign of commitment to finishing the season with that team. Some kind of reverse incentive would encourage teams with roster problems to recruit, rather than fold and potentially ruin another teams season, (Oh Hi 9m Season 7!), and just carry on like nothing has happened.

You could argue by NOT punishing these players/teams, or at least making it harder for them to clan hop, you’re punishing players and teams that really, are not to blame, those on other teams in their division!

I know people leave teams for lots of reasons, but maybe it shouldn’t be so easy and then people wouldn’t just quit after their first official loss.

How about leaving 2 teams in season means a player is banned for the following season…or something like it?

idk, but it really is annoying.

Punishing people who do nothing wrong will harm the league (and the players & teams) FAR more than the current situation does. What’s the point in playing if you’ll get punished anyway unless you can predict the future and know exactly what will happen in a few weeks time.

Can you predict to be 100% available and committed to a team through thick and thin no matter what happens for the coming months? An example would be N0va. We played some good matches with him, he joined LZ.war Green and we all had fun. Gradually small difference between his playstyle and ours made it more obvious that he simply didn’t fit with us, and it completely killed his motivation to play which harmed us more, making it less fun for him etc. Ultimately he left, which was for the good of both sides. Yet, if you had your way, he’d be punished for doing the right thing?

I understand it’s annoying as hell, but the alternative is to kill people’s motivation to play entirely by punishing them if something goes wrong that they can’t do anything about and/or couldn’t have seen coming.

Look, if a player clanhops, we have the ability to reply to recruitment posts and say that he’s an ass. Social control. Too bad it will never work properly, because this is the internet.

This is not professional football, monkeh. People still play this mainly for FUN. Until everyone starts signing contracts and making money off of TF2 (is it “off of tf2” or “off tf2” ?), your ideas for stricter rules don’t really make sense. I know, you will say: But dropping teams ruin MY fun! Well, to quote Joaquin Phoenix: “Well great, I’d like a fucking joint. And to be anywhere other than Washington fucking D.C. But life is not a Christmas day.”

a short while ago i would’ve agreed that droppers should be punished to some extent, then shit went down in my team too. Together for 2.5 seasons and then from one day to the other everything turned bad. RL commitments, arguements, etc. 2 players left, 1 didnt feel like playing anymore. Had no choice but to drop, as much it sucks.

Quoted from Monkeh

Can I ask how long you trialled him before he joined the roster?

That’s exactly what I was going to say after reading that post. If joining a team means something, as Monkeh points out, one wouldn’t just join a team, and a team wouldn’t just recruit someone. Because as it is now, you can simply leave if things don’t work out, so it’s not really a big deal. If it was, though, you’d have a longer trial period and you’d be more careful with the people you recruit. Players would also be more picky about the team they join.

Of course there are always unforeseen circumstances. That’s why you recruit 10 people instead of 6.

@skeej: “off of” :)

Not this again.

Basically, it’s harder to recruit around our level because there are less people looking. The retarded suggestion of recruit 10 people instead of 6 won’t work because:

a) There aren’t that many good players.
b) They are r7an and will fold your team.