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American wanting to know how to use Heavy (aka "Euro Style Tf2")
Created 13th September 2008 @ 17:09
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“c) Would a 2 soldier, 1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 medic, 1 demo lineup work? Or should it only be 1 soldier, 1 heavy, 2 scouts, 1 medic, 1 demo?”
1 scout against 2 enemy scouts would be a fail. I really think, the real cause for using heavies less is what infusion said, the sollies and demos can be in the middle point 2 or 3 times faster than heavy. Thats just one of the situations where heavies have a disadvantage.
The main problem with the above line-up as it leaves too many heavy classes for the medic to heal, meaning at least 1 soldier is left alone by your medic. If you are going to run a heavy, I think the “standard” setup is 1sol 1heavy :)
a) What is the best method of using the heavy? Should they be out in front or in back of the line?
– as the hwg is too slow, you are forced to keep him behind ona map without gates and setup times
– usually medic take care about all clanmates in front of him and hwg should rush rush rush to be at place when uber is ready
b) What maps are the heavies good at and which should we avoid using heavies?
– personally LABOR(2heavies are awsome), gravelpit (for defense on B it is still usable), sometimes GOLDRUSH and BADLANDS (for clans with more developed tactics) — you can even force second team to take heavy as well
– for well, granary i do not recommend to use heavy unless is skiled and your clanmates survive more without one supporting class
c) Would a 2 soldier, 1 heavy, 1 scout, 1 medic, 1 demo lineup work? Or should it only be 1 soldier, 1 heavy, 2 scouts, 1 medic, 1 demo?
– if you have good scout you can leave it to hunt the medi or demon as used to
– if you have not so good scout, leave him as medic guard with one soldier
d) Where can i find some good demo’s of heavy play (and which clans use them well?)
– cadred, or look around the National Cups demos (ESL/ETF2L)
On the end, you are usually forced to change some of the classes to “sniper/engi/spy/pyro” at some special situation, so finally you can’t have fixed lineup/classes for all matches. Sometimes you have to change it during play. Our hwg is learning scout and soldier for instance.
The heavy is still just as effective as it was, but it relies on the strength of your existing team. Basically, the disadvantages of the heavy are many. Slow moving class which means slower reinforcements, absorbs damage (its a pro and a con but a heavy often requires full time healing which diverts your medic from the rest of your team), low manouverability means he is stuck on the floor, on a cap point.
The only advantage of using a heavy, and this is important, is to move the enemy off of a CP. If your heavy moves out onto the point, with just his medic, he is dead against any half organised team.
What your heavy needs to do, is move onto the point to absorb damage, with the rest of your team also moving onto the point.
It takes the full attention of 2 damage dealing classes (soldier, demo, scout), to take out a heavy comboed with a medic, a heavy combined with another class can defeat 2 soldiers in a heads up battle. Because of this, the soldiers are generally forced to move backwards, reload, get ready for a full on attack as soon as the heavy jumps onto the point.
It is at this time, that you’re team has the advantage. Map positioning is everything on the mid point of any CP map. On granary, if you box them into a corner, they have pretty much lost that fight, but obviously you need to capitalise on it.
How to use a heavy effectively in your team. (Example, granary)
– Stay alive until heavy gets onto the point (the hard part)
– Move heavy with medic (only when overhealed) onto point, rest of team must also have a pressence.
– Force the enemy backwards into a corner, or kill anything that approaches.
– Surround that corner, and use your demoman and soldiers to spam and keep the enemies health down.
– Scouts pot shot from mid range and attend to anything that has escaped the ‘corner of death’.
– Don’t go over aggresive, just keep firing into the corner keeping their HP down so they can’t make a full overhealed push onto your team (2 soldiers with 200 HP are obviously weak compared to 2 x 300 hp).
– When they uber, they will escape the corner, but 9/10 times you will uber afterwards, and they will fall straight back into their corner.
It is a hard strategy to master, a 2 soldier strategy can usually mean 2 independent teams of 2 scouts and 2 soldiers, with the demoman tagging along with either of them. A heavy strat relies on full team co-ordination to be successful and thus it’s less successful… most of the time.
With reguards to a ‘stacked heavy lineup’ (1 scout, rest heavy classes), you loose a lot of map positioning at the start. It can work, but its hard to keep track of 2 scouts constantly jumping around and harrassing you, and unless you are against a team well below your skill level, your 1 scout isn’t going to be able to hang on his own against 2 on the mid point.
It can work, but it depends on how effective their initial scouts + demoman attack is before the heavy classes arrive.
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