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Hello!

It has come to my knowledge that Riemu is going around asking ten top teams about their opinion regarding limit demoman to one. After getting his votes, he will try to get ESL and ETF2L(div1) to use this rule. And he will also get cdc5, pcgamer and other events to adopt to this.

Prior to this he has brought this question up in public three times, all ending in favor for cl2/ml1 from the community.

However, this is not something that only affects us teams in the top level, other teams will progress and make it to the top, and for teams trying to reach the top, there really is no point in playing any other way. And with the top events having this rule, the community is likely to be forced to follow.

I really hope that other top teams take this into consideration when deciding what their vote is going to be. And a bit of reaction from other no-voters would be appreciated as well.

I don’t mind this rule getting the standard if the community decides it, not from an evil way of forcing the rule like this though.

And most of you probably understands that I’m a no voter, but I will refrain from posting my arguments for this in this post, and will save that for later.

In really don’t see any reason to deviate from the cl2 ml1 we’ve all been using so far.

If we compare it to the medic, which most of us have agreed it is best to have capped at one, the two demomen is not nearly used as much as two medics would be. Some teams feel they are a viable, and sometimes even the best, setup for certain maps. It’s a bit more risky, since they are very vulnerable at short range, but faster dps and very powerful if played right. So why deny the teams that wants to use them the opportunity to do so?

Like I said, my whole point about this thread is to point out that this will not only affect div1 play, but the set of rules that will be used in the future for the whole TF2 community.

Lets not repeat the same problems that was caused by 6vs6 vs 8vs8 and crit vs nocrit. Did the community follow one of the ways, or was the whole community affected?

Sure, there is some 8vs8 activity and crit cup, but thats probably as much that will be left of the cl2/ml1 if this gets through.

This is really something i feel i need to comment on.

At first i understood riemus 1 demo limit but when thinking about it even more i understood what it meant and who and what would benefit from it.

I know that facing 1 demo is areal pain but when you have 2 good demomans it can be REALLY hard. Thats what this is about. I dont understand why you wanna remove the “tactic” part of the game and force teams to play 1 setup.

If you do wanna enforce a 1 demoman limit you might aswell start forcing setups and for teams to adapt to them… Seriously. 2cl/1ml is more then enough and it makes the game itself alot more interesting since people can when they feel its needed switch to 2 demos and maybe get some “flow” going so they can switch back and attack.

I dont really understand why you are against 2 demomans so much.

I am with weqo on this. And if 1 team goes up a notch from 2 demos its 4k. with both hymzi and ryb on the team.

I agree with weqo and some others above.

This isn’t the first time this issue has been raised, our last public poll showed a clear favour of the 2 demoman limit.

This is not about what the div1 clans (and thereabouts) think. It’s all about everyone who wants to play TF2 competetively. You simply cannot have different rules in different parts of the community. That would hamper switching between the upper and lower parts. That is what noone ever should want. It may be true that div1 teams have more trouble dealing with 2 demomen (i do not know that), but best is to look at the bigger picture.

You can’t get everyone comepletely happy with any set of rules. At some point it just becomes a matter of “deal with it”.

quote from Riemu:

Can we please leave this thread for active Division 1 discussion only, because the division 1 opinion is all I am counting on. I dont want to change the rest of the community.

This may not be what you want, but, whether you realize it or not, it is what you are trying to do. We have 1 TF2 community, not a community and a community. What everyone does is equally important to everyone else.

I personally see no point in going about the demolimit again and “getting our eyes openend”. We had a poll a while back, concluded the majority wanted 2 demolimit, and that’s that. If 10 teams are for 1 demo, and we have 200 registered teams, that’s really an easy decision to make. Raking up the discussion again won’t cause much good, it can only do harm.

My clan wasnt asked our opinion. Obviously we’re not skilled enough! GOGO EGO!

As a medic, I feel 2 organised scouts is overpowered. One can kill me in an instant, let alone 2 that work together! I feel that because 4k also have 2 high quality scouts, we should just make it CL1 throughout.

Seriously. It would be nice if more Div1 clans/players would consider beyond their own level of play and think about others lower down, instead of just considering them inferior and (obviously) having opinions not worth consideration. Theres low skill clans in the lower divisions that have been around longer than teams in the second divisions, yet they’re not being asked because they’re not good enough, even though more experienced?
Just because one or two of clans might be really effective with 2 demo’s, doesnt mean all clans are. And also, dread the thought of teams doing something as radical as using DIFFERENT tactics!

Ah wait a minute. I know what! Ask the teams that are more likely to agree with you so that your results look more conclusive why dont you! Dread the thought of making it a public poll and making everyone to vote to see what the community thought! Oh wait………..

Agree on keeping CL2, and with weqo.

Mole if you took the time to read his post, you would see that he’s clearly stating this should ONLY apply to division one.

I fully agree. The offshoot of this not going ahead is that another league will form and ETF2L will lose its status as the high skilled TF2 community league. Please note I’m not suggesting I would form such a league, I really cba with that – but if the division one teams aren’t having enjoyable competitive games because of one measly rule, that’ll be what happens. That would be a shame.

Why not just listen to the 7/10 division one teams and implement a 1 demo limit in that division only? It doesn’t hurt the lower teams that you’re so desperately eager to protect.

Start your own league Riemoo, and you can implement your demoman limit 1.
I kind of agree with you.
If you want only div 1 clans to take part in the discussion, then maybe ETF2L forum isnt the place to discuss it?