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Quoted from AnimaL

Or fixing/helping to fix systems that already are in place with somewhat stable userbase.

there is nothing with an established userbase for HL (ugc silver+) aside from the spreadsheet.

I wasn’t even here on etf2l when the last IRC based pug was on, so this is basically new for me. I am very active on Colony Spreadsheet. Like quell said it has best base of the members, but you don’t see there new faces a lot. I think this new group have some future ahead, already it has more mixes than the spreadsheet it’s more interesting to use it becouse in spreadsheet you can only sign in as one class, the possibility to set multiple classes is really good becouse it doesn’t close you in one class, also no div limits, all people are welcome to play. If we keep it active it will grow up surely. What it needs is people who care about playing those HL mixes. For me it’s lot of fun.

This channel has support from people who now how it works in NA, so it’s nothing new just copy of what works somewhere else. I know Hildreth is pooting a lot of effort to help spread info about it, and people who likes to play HL are very active there.

I don’t think it was directed to you Scissors, just to people saying “Why you do this, it didn’t worked last time?” People don’t get it that after so many tries someone will do it properly and it will work. IMO it is working good right now.

And btw Scissors just come to us and play sometimes.

Quoted from Scissors

[…]

What’s wrong with constructive criticism?

Absolutely nothing.

It’s not constructive if you don’t actually point out the issues and present evidence or opinion on why they dont work. Hence why I haven’t taken objection to people like Animal. huhy or Skeej who have provided evidence and given reasons to their opinion. Issues that can actually be looked at and attempted to solve.

“It never worked in the past why should I bother?” – Isn’t merely constructive but rein-forcing defeatist attitudes which inevitably lead to it’s demise quicker.

Also what type of criticism is extremely valid. If it is about running of an IRC pug, why they fail, potential barriers that will lead to it’s demise, historic issues that will need to be addressed, sure that is extremely constructive. If it is what the particular person seemed to be implying a case of – “This doesn’t work, don’t invest your time, money and effort into it, do something new” then it isn’t helpful:

We know how difficult the task is.
We know how much effort will be needed to make it work.
The owner has already explained the cost efficiency TO HERSELF of the project in some of her responses.
We’re prepared to accept it will not work but we ain’t going to give up so easily – If everyone in TF2 kept this “it can’t be done attitude” – We wouldn’t have ETF2L or i-series.

If you want something new – What? Suggest something? I won’t get excited about volunteering my time for a lot of things, I only put my effort into certain projects and for a variety of reasons but “think of something new and do it, just not this please it doesn’t work…” – Well, what? Tell me what you think it would be better for me to invest my time and for the owner to invest her money in? Website’s PUGs? Half a dozen people working on them already…

There isn’t really an argument in saying “This again? Put your time, effort and money into something else, it won’t work” without actually giving valid reasons and taking time to read all of the justifications for trying (like we need to justify ourselves, but there we go).

Quoted from Hildreth

[…]

Why are they crap?
What issues do you have?
How can we solve them? (We might already have solved the issues you have).
Do you want us to solve them?
Is it a personal issue with people running them?
Do you just think it is because it isn’t active enough? If so, why not come and play and give me honest feedback…

These questions have been asked time and time again before. It’s even worse so if they have been answered.

Since it’s my time, money and effort that are being discussed…

I will say that the biggest “cost” of this project to me is money. Both time and effort were minimal because of what I already put into the community here in North America.

Before starting this project, I did an evaluation of what I had. I had a bot that was playtested and worked well for highlander. I was already putting considerable time and effort into running what’s currently the most active highlander pug in North America. I had experience running the servers for this sort of pug system. The only thing preventing me from opening an EU franchise, at the time, was servers.

Then tragic of tragicservers approached me and offered me a sponsorship – basically, heavy discounts on the servers I’d need. While there is still some financial burden to me, it’s much less significant than what it would have been. At this point, it no longer made sense not to give this a shot – I had the bot, I had the servers, all I needed was to set it up and let it run.

I do not have the time, money or effort to put into something that’s not an irc pug – irc pugs are what I know, and what I’m equipped to run. In NA, irc pugs do not appear to compete with or diminish other web-based pickup efforts – they offer something unique in the combination of community, picking method and gameplay (even in the form of mandatory participation in mumble). By starting this up in EU, I do not intend to compete with spreadsheet mixes, tf2center, or lobby. I would love to see other pickup systems emerge, but I will not be the progenitor of them.

Quoted from Angel

[…]

Any pug will attract people, regardless of type (irc/flash/ajax), if:
– skilled players will be present there
– or cash prizes will granted
– or it’s will be a something new.
HL pug isn’t something new at the moment, no any prizes, admins – roster of random people (which have only flood skills IMHO). Plus well known IRC related issues for new players.

Attractive = 0.

Flood some more. :)

Please explain, this makes no sense?