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Quoted from bean

[…]

I am not joining this argument, but here are CanFo’s league stats over 3 seasons.

http://etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-21800/page-11/?recent=393413#post-392444

I am not saying there isn’t a decline, I just don’t think it has anything to do with unlocks. I have my own theories which I post in this thread.

If you want to argue for unlocks based on merit, awesome. But until there is proof between unlocks and decline, I am not a believer.

Quoted from Jakle

[…]No, is ‘newbie mix’ some kind of program you’re trying to run or something?
You want people to mix with people from lower divisions and go through you to do it? I don’t know.

CrashSite is referring to the Newbie Mix steam group that was announced on TF2’s official blog a while ago.

Quoted from CrashSite

Fuck y’all from higher divisions I had 4 people from div 5 add me to help with newbie mixes, not ideal, but at least they are willing. The day I get someone from div 2+ to help I will fucking amazed. NA gets the nicest invite player in the world I am luckly to get even the mildest interest.

So thanks to the people who actually want to put the time in. Wish it was more.

Please understand that for Div2+ players, it can be pretty frustrating playing with people that have zero comp experience, given the standard of play each group is used to. Wouldn’t having Div4-5 helpers be far better?

Quoted from CrashSite

My point still stands btw, lets see if I can get it to stick for once.

Crashsite, you need to learn to engage people.
Make a flashy video or a lovely colourful poster. Pages and pages of text aren’t engaging for either the people trying to get into competitive tf2 or the people you want to help.

Quoted from CrashSite

Fuck y’all from higher divisions I had 4 people from div 5 add me to help with newbie mixes, not ideal, but at least they are willing. The day I get someone from div 2+ to help I will fucking amazed. NA gets the nicest invite player in the world I am luckly to get even the mildest interest.

Are you kidding me? Some of the people that helped me the most are Agron, zebbosai and some other high div people. If you wanna be an asshole about getting help then you shouldn’t expect getting any, there are many super skilled players that would really like to help newer players.

I was being hyperbolic if you couldn’t tell.

I am sure there are plenty of people who have helped lower division people, but I am frustrated with the lack of engagement from this community.

For the record it is not much fun for div 4/5 people dealing with newbies most of the time, it has shit all to do with your skill level and everything about how you deal with others.

What killed it last time was a div 5/6 circlejerk, I have already promised that if I see mixes going on for 2 weeks, I will comb through the group and get rid of anyone in a team. That way I at least know the numbers I am dealing with.

Tbh that group has taught me a lot, lessons that have helped in real life as well, so I guess it hasn’t been a complete waste.

But when I see NA getting invite players for their Newbie Mix, I feel in adequate, my e-peen, it is so small etc.

Anyways that is my rant.

Quoted from Monkeh

EU 6v6 is in decline where other scenes are growing plus that fact that EU highlander is growing as well and it seems to me we HAVE to at least consider change.

Less pub players converting to 6v6 = dead game sooner than we all want.

If we stop having rules that make a lot of pub players think that 6v6 is boring or full of elitist pricks that won’t let me play with my gunboats then we’ll see more come to play 6v6 as well as highlander.

Universal profit.

It seems we would lose some players initially from unlock rage quits, but we’d have a better drip-drip IN of players at the other end…shuffle along please everyone.

i think the problem stems from the lack of awareness of the EU scene.

i could be wrong, because i don’t know much about the US or australia scene, but it seems like i hear more about the ESEA and oz matches than the high profile EU matches.

i went through a period where i wanted to watch all of the etf2l prem games on source tv/mumble and catch some older demos. but then i found out that only a few games were covered by STV/cast, and it was impossible to find the demos for a lot of matches.

the comp/pub scene is so segregated it’s like an entirely different game. how are people meant to know that a comp scene exists? i played 2000 hours of non-comp tf2 thinking i was amazing because i literally never played against anyone substantially more skilled than myself… if i’d gotten my ass handed to me by a bunch of high level comp players, if my goal was to improve, i would have signed up to 6v6 years ago.

in short, i believe the entire EU scene is not exhibited enough. if a review of the unlockable items (at least the ones in US/AUS) is required to get that publicity, then go for it.

that said, i understand that a lot of people are putting a shit-tonne of work into the EU scene and it doesn’t go unappreciated… maybe it just needs more willing community members to step forward and share some of the responsibility.