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I almost planned on writing a Vanillatf2 article but then I became egoistic (apparently) and decided it’s better to spend time studying for my exams, so I’ll just post a polished version of the layout of points that I wanted to touch on regarding to this “stir” in the community.

First of all, freshmeatt, Arx, Hildreth, r7an and Chris made some really good points and I might repeat these slightly.

The inb4 tl;dr = A game never “dies”. If you enjoy it, play it until you stop enjoying it.

Ok so my points:

– In this gaming community (and any other gaming community) here have always been cynical people, and on the other side of the spectrum people that want to “promote” the game. It is not like anything new is happening in the community right now, so please stop panicing like mad.

– I see all this talk about “promoting” the game. “Promoting” the game is just postponing its death. It’s like applying a respirator to the community. The bulk of future prospective competitive players will find their way into the game anyway, with or without hand-holding. New players that we have to spoonfeed information will never become serious competitive players anyway. Don’t push what isn’t there. Look at the case study of Chicken George. Chris said it pretty well too. I have been guilty of explaining total noobs how to use xchat or mirc and how to auth themselves to get on pixelpickup, even though I learned how to do that myself by simply reading the fuckin’ manual.

– Arx kinda touched on this: Prem players don’t play for the prizes. Deep down they know that this game isn’t “professional”. They just play for the high level of competition and the satisfaction that you get out of that. It’s about playing but also winning. Having something that “acknowledges” victories (like prizes and coverage) is mostly a symbolic gesture which makes playing and winning even more satisfying. Nobody will deny that it feels good to “win”, to be “good” at someting (or more specific: better than others)

– The incidents where Prem players create a stir about incidents in the game, or throw nasty comments at their competitors (like the double heavy etc) is completely normal and natural. This happens in any high level competitive environment. It is an effect of the will to win. If you don’t understand this, you have a sirlinian scrub attitude. The most important thing is that at the end of the day we can laugh about it.

– I see people mentioning that TF2 doesn’t need MGO’s, doesn’t need LANs, doesn’t need prizes, doesn’t need prem. Well, just like the prizes and big events mostly carry a symbolic function for prem, prem itself also fills a symbolic function for the entire community. There needs to be something to look up to, to top off the hierarchy, the boys that show us how it’s done.

– About top level elitism and arrogance. Once again I refer to any high level competitive environment. It is normal. It is natural. Is it desirable? No. But it can certainly not be of any significant effect to the growth of the scene, as it happens everywhere, even in flourishing scenes.

– Why are we so surprised that one day TF2 might not be as big as it is now? Why does there seem to be a panicmode engaged as soon as somebody points out a game’s lifespan? Games get less popular, this is what happens if games get older (and also the problem of e-sports in general, I refer to a certain episode of Extra Credits for that)

– Above that, in the e-sports scene, we see that FPS as a genre in general seems to be declining in popularity, with RTS and MOBA games reigning supreme. Add to that the often-emphasized fact that TF2 has a huge pub/comp assymmetry. There are so many factors that work against TF2 as a 6v6 competitive game.

– The game will never “die”. The most pessimistic you can get is (like Greg mentioned on PR I think) that this game will eventually become like W:ET, where there is still a small enthusiastic community playing competitive matches. So if you’re really into 6v6 and just want to play videogames, not caring about the circumstances of the “scene”, there is really nothing to fear or talk about.

– Then to adress the complaint that top level players don’t participate enough in community events. I think there are many reasons for this. External reasons (like maybe a top level player being older on average and having more real life commitments) aside, also mind that playing with ones own team at the top level can be already pretty much of an effort at times, especially when there is real pressure to improve and win the next official. There are many players who don’t really feel like playing much TF2 outside their “team time”.

– Don’t regard people who don’t put in effort as egoistic. You’re sitting behind your computer playing a videogame. Go help kids with aids in Africa or something. In the end we all play this game as a means of spending our free time, and to make this list of points circle back to the first, we cannot force anyone outside the scene to spend it just like we do.

So yeah, the game won’t die. Don’t panic. If we want to keep a good sense of competitivity (because, ultimately, that’s why we play 6v6 right?) we should encourage ways of keeping hierarchy and the symbolic effect caused by it. So instead of “forcing” newbies to play this game, we should encourage the existing community to participate and compete.

– Keep signing up to cups outside of TF2 (btw, lower divs, I’m looking at you. You’re free to sign up to Excello cups yet we rarely see teams lower than div3 there) and keep doing interesting stuff like organising that ETF2L Nations Cup, something that is fun for spectators and also has it’s national symbolic value. These “spotlight” mini events are spectator friendly and provide some quick yet effective possibility for teams to compete.

– Is ESL really a lost cause? I think getting a new ESL season would be really good for the health of the community. But then, I’m one of the few that isn’t bothered by Wire.

– Helping new players is obviously not BAD, but I think the more centralized approaches (like the NE 6v6 Mix Group, even though it’s a really good effort) don’t really work. Helping new players should be a decentralized local thing. It should be an individual attitude. If you see that one player on IRC asking some stupid question, just answer it with patience. If someone asks where to play 6v6, add him to your friends list and invite him in a mix. Don’t keep pushing these players tho. If they don’t want to, it’s no point.

lol, still spent about an hour on this post…

– Then the complaint that top level players don’t participate enough in community events. I think there are many reasons for this. External reasons (like maybe a top level player being older on average and having more real life commitments) aside, also mind that playing with ones own team at the top level can be already pretty much of an effort at times, especially when there is real pressure to improve and win the next official. There are many players who don’t really feel like playing much TF2 outside their “team time”.

^to quote Skeej, this is basically what I was trying to say.

im fairly new to ETF2L, and from what i’ve seen heard recieved, div3 upwards it seems to be full off Egotistical dick heads. nothing to help others, yet you have vanillatv and etc, but an actually 1on1, demo review or shit like that helps way more, i asked for a mentor around div4/5 and i ended up with 3 people helping me, Oxy, Sideshow and JG and im my opinion they have more talent, and more respect for other players than any one above div4. IMO < means in my opinion NOT FACT so less QQ thanks.

Quoted from h1

im fairly new to ETF2L, and from what i’ve seen heard recieved, div3 upwards it seems to be full off Egotistical dick heads. nothing to help others, yet you have vanillatv and etc, but an actually 1on1, demo review or shit like that helps way more, i asked for a mentor around div4/5 and i ended up with 3 people helping me, Oxy, Sideshow and JG and im my opinion they have more talent, and more respect for other players than any one above div4. IMO < means in my opinion NOT FACT so less QQ thanks.

I was offering mentoring for ages but nobody msg me :C

Quoted from dauk

[…]

I was offering mentoring for ages but nobody msg me :C

:(

Quoted from h1

im fairly new to ETF2L, and from what i’ve seen heard recieved, div3 upwards it seems to be full off Egotistical dick heads. nothing to help others, yet you have vanillatv and etc, but an actually 1on1, demo review or shit like that helps way more, i asked for a mentor around div4/5 and i ended up with 3 people helping me, Oxy, Sideshow and JG and im my opinion they have more talent, and more respect for other players than any one above div4. IMO < means in my opinion NOT FACT so less QQ thanks.

Meh this is pretty sad. Especially because h1 is actually a pretty fucking sick soldier who will definitely go far.
Not everyone above div4 is a dick though. Granted, there’s a bit of a circlejerk going on and you sort of have to roll into the group, climb up the ladder if you will, but there definitely are some nice folks up there.

You could always pull a konr and just add every prem player on steam :D

i introduced a few poeple to comp tf2 and helped them out and others did the same for me years ago. I just think it’s a fun thing to do. I wish I was good at writing stuff or casting, i tried open mic, but i don’t think i can write worthwhile article. on the nicety of poeple, you can find dickheads in every div. You can just be nice to everyone and everyone will be nice to you, it’s also on how you present yourself you know. And don’t be shy to ask poeple! I used to be shy to ask certain poeple things, because i thought i’d look stupid like that, but once you get over it, you’ll feel stupid for not having it done before.

cup was a massive failure, not much else can be said about it. Got informed of my team, most of who were americans, the day before in the evening. I got around to talking to ONE of them at midnight :D
about the actual thread – TF2 won’t go big but it can get bigger. ETF2L’s fine for the task if the admins not only run the league but also seek sponsors etc. not much we as the playerbase can do for ETF2L since ETF2L apparently doesn’t need more admins

Quoted from h1

[…]

never said for not helping me you utter moron, i see countless “mentor threads, and i see little to non offering to mentor :) case closed.

Here, logic. for every mentor there’s more than 10 mentees. why should the MENTORS be the ones seeking the mentees, especially as they give up more of their time doing their ‘job’ for the mentees than the mentees do getting mentored?