Forum
Pro Well
Created 12th May 2008 @ 04:16
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Kodyl suggested to open cp_well in a hex editor and try to remove the setup time. It worked! So here’s pro_well for you all :)
For people with 7-zip or WinRAR download this: cp_pro_well.7z [19mb]
Otherwise download this: cp_pro_well.zip [31mb]
Just like in pro_granary I am experiencing some serious lighting issues. (Look at this, this and this.)
If anyone knows how to fix this please tell. :)
– F2
coolio. try disabling bloom if u have it on.
seems to work nice here, no gfx glitches :>
if someone would add the stairs from ctf_well on cp2 on this map, well might actually turn out to be quite an interesting map!!!!!! :D
It will be a lot harder to defend, and it is not even easy on the current cp_well, so it will be fun to try, but not necessary.
I dont think that the gates have to be removed, because there’s already some pretty intense battle over the trains. But without the gates the scouts will be more usefull, even more than they already are now.
I prefer keeping the gates at well, nice to have 1 cp-map where the scouts arent as uber :).
Having gates at granary is evil though:P But it all comes down to the clan picking the map, they should be able to decide whether the gates should be on or off, which is why its nice to have both granary and “pro_granary”. So pro_well could be nice, as long as the old one is allowed as well (pun not intended).
And btw.. “cp_pro_granary” has to be the geekiest name ever :)
And btw.. “cp_pro_granary” has to be the geekiest name ever :)
haha,
brought to us by the geekiest TF2 player ever ;p
I think that the gates are fine. Most maps are scout-dominated, which is not so much the case with the current cp_well. I think that TF2 should also have more equilibrated maps, which are fine for the non-scout classes too.
Unfortunately, I see more and more teams built around 2 upper scouts but with 4 other medium skilled non-scout classes, which is a pity imho.
Yea lets just change a cp to have 4 entrance points…maybe add one more, but not 2 (in reference to the steps).
If you thing the majority of decent maps have 3 entrance points to every CP.
Granary (left/right/balc) (cp3)
Granary (big garage door, little door, right garage) (cp4/2)
Granary (left/right/balc) (cp1/5)
Badlands (Upper(where it splits to 2 poss ents)/Lower/Right side) (cp1/5)
Turbs (Vent/Lower/Upper)
etc:)
The point is, if we open Well up to much I think it’ll be too much. The good thing about maps like Badlands, that where there is loads of diff places to attack from (cp2/3/4), its a massive open space, so you can usually see where people come from. Where-as well has loads of corridoors etc.
Tbh I think pro_well should not replace the normal Well. It’s just the difference between Well and Granary that keeps it fun to play both. Making them the same by deleting Well’s gates is almost as stupid as the placement of gates at Granary. Both maps were fine as they were.
I do vote for the extra ctf_stairs on Well, that is a nice adding of complexity to the map.
cp_well is an awful map and any changes to it is good.
My suggestions to cp_pro_well :
– Remove the setup time
– Remove the gates @ cp3
– Remove Healthpack + Ammopack from cp3 (left+right) and add a small healthpack + ammopack on both sides instead (so that you actually have 4 healthpack + 4 ammopacks in the middle)
I would prefer to just try it with those 3 changes, before adding stairs to cp2. Opening up the middle like this already creates a completly different and fast paces gameplay. Maybe the stairs to cp2 will not be necessary then. Honestly – opening up the middle + give 3 additional attack routes (left/right balcony + attic) to the map will kill it completly. You can at least defend Granary cp2 – but Well cp2 with stairs to the balcony is almost not defendable.
that depends on where you are defending from riemu.
if you defend at the doors and windows instead of inside on the cp, there will still only be 2 entrances, where as in granary, if you defend the doors at cp2 there are 3 entrances, which further in splits into 4 possible entries (2nd floor, garage way, left door, and the small passage), and if the 2nd floor isnt beeing defended, additional 2 entry points are open from the spawn area.
well 2nd point is 50 times easier to defend than cp2 at granary atm. since we have a resupply room, 2 medium health kits, and 4 small, health kits at the top floor, aswell as better cover, only 2 possible entry points, and that the enemy is forced to uber a long time before the defenders have to pop their uber.
while on granary, the defenders have 1 medium healthpack (2nd one is at the stairs, which is quite the walk when comparing the distance between the medium healthpacks on well), the fighting takes place on the single healthpack close to the cp tho, and the medium healthpack is actually more benificial to the attacking team if they manage to get control of the door area. cp2 granary also has alot less cover, no resupply, and a pretty equal status on whos gonna pop the uber first.
clearly well is an extremly unbalanced map on 2nd point as it is now.
I think you missed my point treigzak.
No one is argueing cp_well is fine as it is right now. In fact, i mostly agree with you (at least with everything but your healthpack argument). I dont think it would make granary cp2 easier to defend if you had 3 additional big healthpacks.
The defense capability of granary cp2 is almost perfect as it is, because you mainly dont defend the point itself but try to catch the enemy early or split him apart.
It is just not possible to defend well the same way, because the whole map construction is too different.
I just cant figure out a plausible gameplay which would justify adding the stairs access, without completly removing any defense capability.
You basicaly have to shift your whole gameplay either backwards (which is not quite possible) or forward, resulting in a cp3 balcony -> cp2 balcony/frontdoor battle. The attacking team will basically have to stay on cp3 charging up, while the defending team takes position on their balcony (maybe bring a sniper up or long-range-pipe the opposing balcony – hello 2 demoman setup!) and behind or in front of the 2 mainbase doors. They dont really have to show themselves, as long as incomings get announced via balcony sentries or periodically open the doors.
I dont really think that adding stairs to cp_well will make the gameplay so much better. Of course, I might be wrong, and it might really be the right way to go. I am not denying that.
All I am saying is, dont try to turn a sheep into an elephant – try to add the “rhino” stage in between. Why not just trying to remove the gates + setup time, and see how the gameplay shifts / develops. Because if there is one thing we all agree on – the gameplay will shift drastically.
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