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The map definitely shows promise. As a whole it seems nice and open with plenty of routes to flank from and some moderately different points that could play out in a lot of different ways.

Here’s what I’ve noticed so far:

– The map seems very big. The walk times are probably the longest of any 5cp map I’ve ever played. Getting from one point to another takes a very long time and something about the map just feels overly big and complex. Not sure if this is even correct or not, but it just feels that way

– The mid point is kind of interesting, very different from most mid-points, I’m just worried that actually standing on the point comes at too high a price. Standing on the point is almost always a disadvantage in-itself, since the enemy knows where you are and will be able to spam you easily. You almost never want to actually be down in that pit unless the entire enemy team is wiped, meaning that mid could be very hard to retake, or at least very dangerous.

– The area connecting 2nd and mid seems way too big, complex and redundant. It’s almost impossible to prevent a scout from hiding in that area and either flank or backcap.

– Last seems very easy to attack into and out of. It’s very open, has lots of entrances and many long sight lines. The transition between 1st and 2nd is probably the strongest aspect of this map.

There’s more, but the the most important issues with this map IMO are the long distances and the awkward mid point and the area sorrounding it.

In my opinion the best way to compare distances between points is to compare the time it takes a medic to get from one point to the next (the team is limited by their medics movement speed and its the only way to ignore most of the maps design).

The general distance between two points/spawns on a 5cp map is 3k hammer-units a medic travels at 400 hammer-units/sec.
The time a medic takes to get from point A to point B ranges between ~8 to ~12 secs.

cp_5gorge:
– point 1 to 2: ~7.8 sec
– point 2 to 3: ~10.8 sec

cp_granary:
– point 1 to 2: ~8 sec
– point 2 to 3: ~11 sec

If you compare the results, it can be concluded that the distance between cp_5gorge’s points and cp_granary’s points is equivalent.
Everything else is placebo and can’t be taken in account.

I dont think that the map can be played well in competitive 6vs6.

– There are too much entrances on all points. It’s nearly impossible to defend all entrances and its too easy for a scout to backcap.
– Its very hard to cap the mid. You really have to wait unless the whole enemy team is down. Soldiers and demo can spamm the point easily.
– The map is very open. In our match one sniper decides the whole match and i think that this shouldnt be. Its hard to find a spot where a sniper cant kill you.

Blame me for my english skills.

Quoted from Waster

The map isnt interesting to play in 6vs6 as 5 cp map.

On the middle the only thing that really influences the mid fight is the sniper. Scouts have no ability to flank or use terrain to their advantage. Its to closed for soldiers to really make usefull rocketjumps. Everyone stays on the edges till anyone is spammed away before someone is able to cap the pit. Compare that to granary and badlands where claiming the territory of the controlpoint gives you the advantage of the extra time on the point and being in the better position to fight the enemy. Which makes it a fast and interesting fight for the middle point. This totally lacks on gorge.

The map between cp3 en cp4 is totally uninteresting to play. The attackers have only one good way to push to cp4. It makes the game really boring and predictable. It really seems to be designed for A/D because all the passages seems to favor the defender who has 2 extra ways to attack from.

cp2 is really messsed up. The distance is so huge that its even impossible to get close with two rocket jumps. It doesnt even matter if you got uber or the medic. If the enemy holds far there is not anything you can do, because the sniper has at least 4 shots before you can engage him.

All the action in tf2 takes place close and mid range. Maps should be designed for this and give players the oppurtunity to chose to engage enemies close range and mid range. Even big battle area’s like mid and spire on badlands makes it fairly easy to engage on midrange with all the cover and terrain that can be used to you advantage to close the gap.

Related to gorge, all action seem to be mid or long range. Which results in snipers being overpowered. In fact the same reasoning applies to fastlane which suffers from way to large battle areas.

Gorge was way better as A/D map. Any try to make it a 5cp will be a waste of time.

Agreed. Nothing more to add.

Looks great :)

Certain aspects of the map are too big, not seen the new update but 2nd point seems too huge, though I sort of like how last point is set out so you can do surprise jumps over the wall on the right and you have to control the top window otherwise like on granary you’d be giving up a spam point.

Middle is a bit enclosed, maybe the window up was replaced by a bigger battlements and perhaps give 1 more flanking option?

Section to 2-3 is large but the uniqueness I enjoy > second point is absolutely huge though and the forward respawn is badly placed in my opinion, right next to the 2nd point, needs to be moved backwards a bit.

What if they had some sort of way of getting into middle from underneath, like that starts under the secound point or something, and would end up like this

http://i56.tinypic.com/x1mws0.jpg

?

Maybe that could add some “safety” to the middle point?