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TFTrue 2.8
Created 30th December 2008 @ 10:15
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I know people get frustrated by the demo being over powered in certain situations. I think we should wait and see what valve do first though.
I can only imagine what a nightmare it is trying to balance a game with 9 different classes all with different speeds, hp’s and all variety of weapons.
People want to balance the game in favour of the class they specialise in. You need some neutral input.
I do agree the randomness adds some sort of extra excitement to the games. Which for example makes scouts think wether or not the attack the demo, cause they can’t be sure to survive his nade.
However some of the ranges of the damage are jusdt too big (demo anyone?), as many people have already pointed out, it can take you either 1 pipe or 3 to kill a scout. That’s just too much randomness.
“When you disable random damage, the damage dealt will be the mid-value of the lowest random damage and the highest random damage ((low + high) / 2).”
Scout: Scattergun!
Point Blank: 85+105 / 2 = 95
Medium Range: 10+40 / 2 = 25
Long Range: 3+10 / 2 = 6.5
Demoman: Grenade!
Direct Hit: 64+132 / 2 = 98
After Grenade Bounces:: 22+64 / 2 = 43
Demoman: Sticky!
Directly Underneath: 74+153 / 2 = 113.5
3ft From Explosion: 60+124 / 2 = 92
6ft From Explosion: 47+90 / 2 = 68.5
Soldier: Rocket Launcher!
Point Blank: 105+112 / 2 = 108.5
Medium Range: 50+90 / 2 = 70
Long Range: 45+60 / 2 = 52.5
If we compare max damage with TFTrue 2.0:
Scout: Scattergun!
Point Blank: (Nerf 10)
Medium Range: (Nerf 15)
Long Range: (Nerf 3.5)
Demoman: Grenade!
Direct Hit: (Nerf 34)
After Grenade Bounces: (Nerf 21)
Demoman: Sticky!
Directly Underneath: (Nerf 39.5)
3ft From Explosion: (Nerf 32)
6ft From Explosion: (Nerf 21.5)
Soldier: Rocket Launcher!
Point Blank: (Nerf 3.5)
Medium Range: (Nerf 20)
Long Range: (Nerf 7.5)
We can see that Demoman is the most nerfed class and that is what most of us want, right?
I vote for TFTrue! It supports the better player!
(Source: TF2 Wiki)
But the sticky bomb damage is distanced based (between you and the sticky), so what you said is not totally right. But it is right for the grenades (there is no distance based damage afaik).
and I’m not sure the rocket damage goes that low.
Garm3n you got your figures wrong on demoman damage:
Demoman: Grenade!
A direct hit can be at least 147, not 132*
Demoman: Sticky!
Directly Underneath can be at least 170 not 153*
Fragga, similar things can be said about soldier rockets and scout scatter, both of which are able to kill 125hp classes in 1 shot occasionally.
These rareties should be ignored, nobody seems to know why these weapons will sometimes do more damage than their max values, but it is probably something to do with impulse physics in the engine, when one or both players are moving forward towards the other (especially at high speed) it seems to add to the damage dealt.
Ok! But isn’t 147 and 170 the result of the latest update? Which i think/hope will be fixed next time.
Demoman: Grenade!
Direct Hit: 64+147 / 2 = 105.5 (Nerf 41.5)
Demoman: Sticky!
Directly Underneath: 74+170 / 2 = 122 (Nerf 48)
Demoman with TFTrue is in that case even more nerfed.
Well, you actually have a lower chance of getting low numbers and high numbers, and those numbers are really high, so you even have a lower chance of getting them.
I’ve changed TFTrue to get the max damage of every weapon (instead of doing (min+max)/2), to see their max damages. I’ve tested with Fragga, and to get a 170 sticky, you would need to be stuck to the enemy, with the sticky under his foots (because of distance based damage). But then it all depends of where it hits the enemy. Same for grenades, it was really hard to get a 147 grenade, and the only place of the body that seem to do the more damage is just under the foots, we got a lot of 145-147 damage here.
No, there is no “body part” based damage, but stickies, rockets and grenades are using SPLASH damage, and VALVe took a point on each player model which should be the “MIDDLE” of the player model (probably inside of the model), that’s why it does more damage at some place of the body than others. This point seemed to be in the foots, or around for the soldier (probably the same for other classes).
EDIT: I found how to disable the death cam very easily. I remember someone suggesting that sometime ago. What do you guys think about this?
How does the damage from a sticky be affected by distance from demomen, in terms of the game? Is it a sticky in air for 0.1s, sticks, will do maximum damage, or is it a sticky that is fired close to the demomans position, or a sticky exploded close to the demomans position. Tbh damage drop off on stickies makes no sense to me, and Id love to know how they implemented it. ive gone thru this whole game thinking it was constant damage with no drop off like the nade launcher.
all this thinking about random damage and how its distance based MAKES MY HEAD EXPLODE
cant we just play ? :(
in 6on6 all this shouldnt have an effect on the result. fragga u should just learn to play demo if youre so annoyed by it :p
skinnie you can also just ignore the topic :)
There seem to be an issue currently on Linux servers with TFTrue, when you type anything in the chat, the server crashes. It should be fixed today or tomorrow.
Yeah we had the above problem when we tried running it.
AnAkin why should skinnie just ignore the topic? He should just hang back and let a bunch of demo haters try to change the game to their liking…yeah sure…
No one else finds it some what peculiar that according to Garm3ns dmg value chart, every class would get their dmg values nerfed. So battles take longer, harder to kill stuff quickly. I’m not sure we want to encourage the medic oriented gameplay more, now do we? Every class does less damage so a medic’s going to have an easier time to keep everyone alive. And if you lose your medic, you’ll be epicly funked as there’s a smaller chance of you killing the enemy who’s getting healed…
Just lower the max dmg from stickies abit, and everyone is happy :]
The plugin was not really made to nerf the demo. It still nerf it a bit because you get the middle damage. I told him to ignore the topic because he seems to not really care about it, and anyway it makes his head explode :P
Garm3n showed the damage difference from the maximum damage value a weapon can get. But, you have actually more chance to get damage in the middle values than the max damage, so the weapons don’t really get a nerf.
Agron, I dont think it would be that worse just because Scouts do 10dmg less than their maximum, or soldiers 15, or demomen 30. You can still kill a medic in 2 hits.
Basically, I think the plugin is pretty much perfect. Only heavies seem to deal a lot more dmg.
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