Forum
TFTrue 2.8
Created 30th December 2008 @ 10:15
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 24 25 26 ... 41 Next »
Out of interest I wrote down on a word document how many deaths (excluding fall deaths) and by which class over the last 20 games: 71% were from the demoman 16% were from scouts and 11% were from soldiers – others 2%
Of that 11% deaths from soldiers many were ubered soldiers (I didnt record this). of the 71% from demomen the vast majority were from stickies (again I didnt think to record this). The percentage of deaths to demoman was much higher when we rolled the opposition.
When you think we play only x1 demoman and x2 scouts and x2 soldiers you’d think the percentage would be shifted towards the scouts and soldiers – these figures, I believe, speak for themselves.
Almost all sticky deaths were from the sticky launcher being used as a rocket launcher, not from stickies placed behind doors/walls.
You don’t check for stickies? ;D
Arx makes a very good argument for randomness.
I think he has put into words what a lot of people had felt about the positives of random damage.
Let the debate continue!
I still can’t see the fun in the random dmg values.
A demo shouldnt be able to 1 pipe a full scout. A scout shouldnt be able to 1 shot a medic or a scout. Neither should the scout need 3-4 full hits nor the demo 3 pipes for a scout.
Thats just my opinion. Same goes for sollies, 1 rocket shouldnt kill, but 1,5 rockets should kill a scout and a medic.
anyway, im pro tftrue :)
well, seems like many demomen think 1shots are ok. If you argue against them, l2p is a ql argument how ArX figured it out. Is this a really good argument Admirable?
And if you argue about random damage, it’s always the question, if 1shots (with certain probability) are good or not.
The fact that scouts KNOW there MIGHT be a oneshot nade coming their way makes them a bit more vary of getting up close with the demo, and that is what shapes the matchup the most. If they know they will always survive two, just running into the demoman and letting him die from selfdamage is a sufficient victory for your team.
Just throwing that out there. Also, demo is my mainclass and I can remember exactly one time when an unboosted scout didn’t die from 2 grenades. Stop using that in your arguments, it’s hardly common enough to warrant being even brought up.
rofl, nice circular argument to justify bs spread. Wisdom is MIGHT!
well, im scout and it happens :)
But that wasn’t my point. The demo is obviously the most powerful class in a match. So its a mood argument what should be done about it.
But the random dmg is annoying and sometimes decides close matches. Which shouldnt be the case.
If you take out the random dmg tehre still is the random spread. Which is enough randomness in my eyes.
How much dmg each class should deal with each weapon is another thing. There will always be whining about a class being nerfed or overpowered.
But making the game more predictable about how much dmg is dealt should make the competitive matches much more enjoyable.
I completely agree with what Bash said there.
If a scout is unsure about wether he’ll take 1 nade to die or 2, he’ll automatically be more cautious, and that is (imo) not a bad thing.
However, the damage ranges of both pipes AND stickies should be significantly lower.
Erm, so you would want the demo to be able to kill scouts with one grenade and at the same time you want to make the damage range smaller. That would make the demo even more overpowered than what it currently is.
well if its lower, then its either 1 pipe kill or 2 pipe kills, not much room in between :)
but thats a balance issue, nothing to do with random dmg in itself.
if its balanced well tftrue is the way to go.
TFTrue is not about balancing the game.
Actually the min+max/2 aproach is the only sensible one to introduce static damage that can avoid the rebalancing issue. It’s still Valve’s damage range avaraged under the assumption that there is a linear distribution over the damage range.
I signed up for TF2, not TFTrue.
Well, and i want some competitive basics in this game. Randomness isnt.
TF2 wasnt meant to be played with class limits etc. as well. but it still got introduced over the time. To even out the stuff that Valve wasnt capable of.
“A demoman should not be able to 1 shot a scout”.
Why should a demoman not _be able_ to 1 shot a scout?
When…
A sniper can headshot a scout/spy/medic/sniper without charging and get an insta-kill.
A scout is able to 3 hit any class in the game, has the fastest run speed, a double jump, two hitscan weapons and can capture points at double the speed of other classes while only losing 25-75 health (half/one inacurate shotgun shot) from the rest of the significant classes.
The demoman is one of the only classes in this game that prevent the entire game being decided by scouts and even then, who kills the demoman the most on the mid point on granary? Oh wait… it’s normally the scouts! The ones who are complaining about getting 1 shot all the time. Get it into your head, a scout is a low health class, you are not a tank who can jump around, in and out of a battle and not expect to die quickly.
Soldiers… get in the air when fighting a demoman! You have direct fire rockets, you have a hitscan weapon which eliminates his dodging ability and he only has a prediction weapon. If you let the demoman sit there and be free to spam you, yes… you will die! You have to put pressure on a demoman, just as you do with a sniper…. I can think of a million situations where i’ve had a soldier suprise rocket jump over and ontop of me, and there was very little i could do about it. Sure, 1 in maybe… 5 times i’d be able to land some lucky nades on him, but it regularily takes 3 pipes to kill a buffed up soldier and I can get shut down in 2 nicely aimed, close range rockets (While being jumped on).
I play all classes, and I’ve never found an issue with balance in TF2 because I know what to expect of each of the classes, and how to counter them (My own style, everyone develops theirs). When I played scout, I never bitched about the demomen, when I played soldier, I never bitched about the scouts.
The only game changing choices i’ve agreed with is having medic limit 1 (to make the game more tactical) and demo limit 1 because the demo is a spammy class (it is designed to be) and having 2 of them in a small team game (6v6) means a team would now rely heavily on spam to do the killing instead of aiming and timed pushes. If your whole team dies to a single demoman, you only have yourselves to blame for being in a position where he could kill your whole team. Just because he has the damage output (while fully loaded) to take down an entire team, he still only has the health of a single player.
“Why should a demoman not _be able_ to 1 shot a scout?”
Because a good demoman would be able to own every class in the game? Demomen wer’nt deisgned for direct combat. His main role really was to setup traps with stickies and spam with nades.
Add A Reply Pages: « Previous 1 ... 24 25 26 ... 41 Next »
content rss