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Recent Patch Bugs (157 nade) Fragga
Created 17th December 2008 @ 09:57
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i’m against a plugin to make static damages tbh !: i have not noticed a lot of difference ingame since the patch , even if stickies seems to make a bit more dmg , it’s not a big deal.
Against the static damage plugin. How can you estimate the damage value with out breaking game balance? The only one who can is Valve, and nobody else…
Valve balances the game for Publics (12v12 with 4 Engineers and 3 Demomen on each team on Dustbowl/Gold Rush).
The Static Damage Plugin balances the game for competitive matches. We’ll see if it works out, but we should definately try it out.
We realy are talking about fixing stuff here, not changing stuff radicaly.
The last patch had unexpected sideeffects.
What i notice most:
– unexpected damage spikes
– sometimes strange lag when s1 dies
– both somehow connected
I dont like the damageoutput of demoman, so i wont go into that. That is only related to the topic when combined with the above points.
On the matter of random damage/spread i have to say, that its part of TF2.
Rip it out and the game becomes too static. Not enough crazyness without it.
Some random damage is rather nice, if only for the placebo effect of making the game more intense.
However atm there is too much spread for some weapons.
As some have said before: a demo can kill a scout with one nade if he’s lucky, but he might need 3 if he’s got bad luck.
It’s things like that that annoy people, and ultimately make them leave the game.
@Dr. Sellrion : Did I ever say we are estimating the damage value?
The plugin automatically takes the middle value of the random damage, and I don’t see any problem with that. Damage is not totally static because of the distance based damage which is still here.
The main problem with random damage is that the grenade launcher/sticky launcher damage range is really large (around 80 damage difference).
EDIT: We got the plugin to work on Linux. It’ll be released soon :)
Bad idea imo, game mods like this that separate general public play and the competitive side of the game can kill the game. There s also usually a lot of hassle at LAN when the mod generally wont be on the servers, such as tf true (or whatever it was called) and i-series.
But hey ho hardly any of you go to lan anyways.
Public play is already separated from competitive play with crits/nocrits.
A lot of games like COD4 have pro mods, and there is no problem with that. Pro mods like the COD4 one are changing like 50 things in the game (go to the site and see the feature list). Here we are just changing one thing.
And yes, like you said, there are almost no TF2 Lans, or nobody go to them.
Evil, TF2 is dead anyway :O
Thats right
The plugin automatically takes the middle value of the random damage, and I don’t see any problem with that.
Who said that it should be the middle value? Weapon damage system – is a very important part of game balancing. And no one, exepting Valve, can change it. It is not like removing crits, damage system lays deeper than you imagine. Valve created the game, and only they can bring the static damage into TF2. IMO, of course…
You probably said the same about nocrits. Nocrits server were first possible by a plugin (TFTrue). Then, when VALVe saw that TFTrue was used a lot, they decided to add a cvar to disable crits and respawn times.
If this plugin is going to be used in leagues and VALVe see that it is used, they might add a cvar.
Sellrion you are running under the assumption that valve understand the games needs better than anyone else, which I would say is an unfair assumption. Some competitive players have dedicated many hours (over 1000) into learning and playing the game, for fun or for competition. Valve couldnt compete with this amount of play “testing”, especially not from single players. Its these players that can say what is good for the game, and what is bad, not valve.
I just want to reassure to people that we as ETF2L will not take this on until it has been effectively tested and is very much a community agreement that it is needed. We won’t just throw this in.
From a personal perspective, AnAkin should be posting more about changes and the direction this is going. Keep us updated. Game changes like this should not be made by one or two peoples opinion alone. This should only make changes to make the game what it was like pre-update and no other changes for now. On top of that changes should be by community vote or test.
If you need to hold one night cups or games to test and balance these changes then talk to me/dAy/DeNeusBeer, ETF2L would be happy to make an event happen to work with the community to improve the gameplay for the competitive players that want to play properly as a team. It benefits us all after all and is the best way to find a level that we can agree on. The changes may not as simple as just “make demo weaker”.
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