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I agree Fenrir that there are loads of clanless people around, and the skill of players on Pubs is generally very low. I’m also impressed at how many L4D teams there are.

However, I disgree that tactics in TF2 are too hard, and that it gets boring. TF2 takes more intelligence than virtually any other game out, because one player cannot simply carry the rest of his team; everyone has to be pulling their weight, or else the team will go down.

“i never had so many fun and competition as in L4D dude, you know why? cause its not predictable how it will go, in TF2 its a meter of tactics, in L4D its a meter of teamwork and what do you know, of luck, cause never know how it will go, the game is unpredictable, makes it more competitive. ”

Games being unpredictable has never ever favoured any competitive game. Players need to know precise details or else they can’t take risks etc. Look at how crits were removed from competitive play – nobody liked them because you could get ridiculously lucky, and bad teams managed to beat very good teams. Look at the current problems with damage variables – people serious about playing the game don’t want a random element being a decisive factor. L4D is uniquely random in the very nature of the zombies, so I don’t know how Valve could ever make it work competitively, let alone a community.

“maybe in couple of years when people will get bored of CS, and finaly realize that there are more interesting games then just run and shoot, they will come to TF2 and stuff, and there will be more brains in this game, more team leaders wich will create good teams, then this game will have fututre, for now, not so many people that have brains to organize a team and create ultra tactics, maybe not ultra, but competitve gameplay, for now this game is only going down”

There are already people like this in competitive TF2 organising LANs etc, to promote the scene, but if people like you who’ve been playing a long time just disappear, the community will just die. There are more teams growing, more people realising that pub TF2 is just getting boring now, and finding that playing 6v6 takes the game to a whole new level. However, success doesn’t come instantly, and it needs people with a bit of foresight and dedication to push the game forward, and show the vast number of clueless CSS players that it’s an even better game.

Derail, thats about a problem in TF2, hard tactics, you dont think so? hmm, well lets see it this way, check out how many teams were in div 1 and 2, and how many failed. droped. etc. why? bad players? defenetly not, there are many high skilled players that know what are they doing, but whats the problem, why no one can beat TCM and 4Kings yet off the first places ? check out CS, have you seen one team taking couple of competitions at least in a raw? there are many many teams that can compit for the first places. in TF2, there are not enough for the lesser skilled teams div 1 2, and problem not in players skilled, problem in tactics, i played this game from beginning and saw many many damn good players, but as it goes for the team, it basically sucks .. why? they arent bad players, but not enough of team tactics, this game is damn hard for most of people. and thats a problem. i would defenetly prefer to play as a cyber sport TF2, but, as you see it going down, people going other games. Even look at WCG, damn we had to be there in 2008, but what do you know, they didnt accept out culture, and so they did it for 2009, they pas on TF2, cause its predictable, TCM 4 kings and couple of other teams will take 1st places, and thats basically it. Shame, but thats truth, TF2 going down, and i would be happy if that was only my opinion, but its not.

About people like me who disappear, dude, i had post that demo looking for clan had bumped for like 2-3 weeks, and many people knew me, and knew how i play, i wasent asking for much, div 2-3 team, but not just 2-3 team, that is in some of this div, but the team that in this divs and trying, practicing etc. and what i had? couple of invitations from teams of div4 .. Thats when i decided to move on, i wrote a post that im leaving TF2. still had no invitations from any normal team. well what you supose me to do? play pubs? not interesting. Pickups? heh, even worth, now when there are bunch of idiots noobs and all other stuff playing, its not even close to interesting gameplay, hapens only one, either you get bunch of noobs or the other team and you get raped or you rape, and trying to push your team forth … thats kinda stressful .. and i checked time to time if any good clan searching for demo of mid+ level, maybe not even div2 clan, but some trying div3 clan, but, pitty, none is looking for =)

I agree Fenrir that at the moment, there are 3-4 top teams who could potentially challenge each other this next season, but it has previously been dominated by 4K. However, this doesn’t mean there wasn’t competition – 4K didn’t easily win. Season 4 could be one of the most exciting yet, with lots of teams potentially taking maps off each other, making it very close.

I would disagree though that the reason these teams win purely is because of tactics. Yes, their game strategies benefit them, but there is definately a skill factor involved – virtually all of the top players are capable of pulling off upsets, which you just don’t seem sometimes in Div 2/3. This doesn’t mean these playesr can’t compete – it just means they need more time to develop. Giving up on the game now would see lots of emerging, high Div3/Div 2 teams considering whether to just quit, and these are the teams who will push the game forward – the ones who will encourage their friends to play the game competitively.

What are those numbers for Evil?

Current Players / Peak Today Game

85,442 / 85,442 Counter-Strike: Source
66,285 / 71,860 Counter-Strike
21,712 / 21,712 Football Manager 2009
20,125 / 25,831 Left 4 Dead
10,280 / 12,031 Team Fortress 2
10,035 / 10,035 Condition Zero
6,500 / 6,856 Day of Defeat: Source
3,801 / 5,028 Garry’s Mod
2,654 / 2,665 Half-Life 2: Deathmatch
2,381 / 2,381 Half-Life 2
2,084 / 2,172 Day of Defeat
1,077 / 1,176 TrackMania Nations Forever
1,019 / 1,172 Zombie Panic! Source
Source – http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Lol at cod ^^
544 / 661 Call of Duty: World at War
419 / 586 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Numbers dont lie, as you see L4D has more potential.

Who gives a shit how many 1000’s are playing on public servers? If you can log on and get a game in a format that you enjoy what is there to worry about? Unless it’s people trying to make a living out of gaming – gl lol

Left 4 dead is currently the in thing, many tf2 people are playing at the moment. I think it severely lacks replay value and in a month or so people will start to get bored of it (I have played it for only 5 hours or so and I’m getting bored of it).

I’ve played tf2 for a whole year and haven’t got bored of it.

“Lol at cod ^^
544 / 661 Call of Duty: World at War
419 / 586 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare”

People don’t play cod on steam.

Errr… L4Dead as a competitive game?
You have to be kidding me…

Its definitely fun for a while (provided you play it with friends) but it has to many flaws to be taken seriously. One for example is the random spawning of zombies. One team could start off with a 6000 hp tank boss while the other team gets him at the end or doesn’t encounter him at all. And the tank is practically the only thing you’ll die to and score is measured by how far you got in the level…
Also, there are almost no tactics involved. Since all the zombie bosses(the one’s controlled by players) are on a respawn timer the best tactic will be to rush trough the levels so the opponents will only have a few tries to attack you.

Personally, I have FUN playing TF2 and I couldn’t care less if more people are playing games like football manager.