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It’s not easy making a team out of the decent unclanned players floating about as many seem to want to slot straight into a div2 team and need a reality check and are generally indecisive.

The other alternative is to join a really low clan infested with guys that play TF2 in between CS/Football Manager/WOW and god knows what else just depending on their mood/boredom etc

I think a few people have missunderstood what I was saying I didn’t mean div3-4 should play div1 teams and get raped weekly I mean that they should at least play a few teams in the div above them that are higher skilled, what I see alot is people not wanting to play clans because they are too good etc. Get a raping once a week you might learn from it.

In response to the OP, I think that there isn’t specifically a need for a ‘buddy pairing’ system, but I can understand why you might suggest it. For my team which was formed from scratch, we’ve had to watch demo’s and spec games to learn what the top players do. Understanding this is a different issue, and basically differentiates intelligent gamers from those who arn’t, and thus successful teams from bad ones. As byte says, this game takes far more intelligence than many, and I think just simply telling lower skill teams what to do makes them follow instructions, rather than understanding the game. As well as this, you’re basically stifling any new tactics that could be developed, and enforcing the current rules on the game, which could stop some really new things coming to the scene. Although I’d love it if all of a sudden, top players started offering to give my team advice, I think part of the fun of being in a clan is developing your own tactics and working stuff out for yourself.

In regards to the competitive scene in general:

For me, I came to TF2 after playing 1-2 years of CSS, with friends, rather than to play competitively. However, I quickly realised how good this game is when playing seriously, and
why I decided to focus on it, rather than just playing casually or drifting between games. I’ve joined a few clans, and played to increase my skill level without ever getting any help from top players, and altho hard to say, I’d probably say I’m about mid skill now, on a good day mid+ . I’ve played pickups as much as possible, and pcws with my teams, but at the moment I feel like I’m hitting a plateau. When I try and actually think, I think I can play at a mid+ skill, but because I’m not allowed to play invite pickups, when my team arn’t around, motivation to play ordinary pickups with lots of low players isn’t particularly high.

I did actually play 2-3 invite pickups a while before the authorisation system was implemented, but I was kicked by a player just because I was clanless at the time, and unknown. The admin had never seen me play, neither had the guy who asked to get me kicked. I tried to play my absolute best during the matches, and never came bottom or significantly let my team down, but was kicked regardless. At the moment, the invite pickup channel is basically a mix system for top players wanting to play with their friends, and it doesn’t give any oppertunity to new players. I’ve asked if I can join, but been told that there are no chances, and that basically I’d have to ALWAYS play well to ever merit being in the channel, even tho currently there some non-ETF2L players in there, as well as the fact that nobody can ALWAYS play as well as they know they can.

I think it’s a real shame, because the best way for new teams and new players to emerge is to give them a chance to play with the best players in a fun environment. Lower teams just getting thrashed by higher teams doesn’t necessarily help, but playing in a mix where teamwork happens on the fly actually makes players think, and work harder, and thus get better. As well as this, no particular player or team has to spend time giving advice or going through maps, it’s a much easier system on everyone. I know it’s hard to differentiate between which players are ready to start playing in the invite pickups, compared to people who think they’re high+ when they’re mid-, but the blanket rule of being in div1/2 isn’t helping.

I’m increasingly thinking that just because TF2 doesn’t have the same coverage and respect that games like CSS have, some of the top players – NOT all – feel the need to try and enforce some distance between themselves and lower teams. Whilst I understand that it’s hard for top players to just drop out and play with lower skilled teams, how do they expect newer teams to come through, if they don’t give them a chance? I think it’s a huge shame because when I speak to some of them 1on1, they generally seem pretty nice, and I think unlike any other game, the ‘fun’ element in TF2 gives a lot of the top players a really good attitude, where they are totally willing to accept Steam adds etc. However, when it comes to it, in terms of giving new players chances, nothing happens.

i know back in the days when i played cs1.6 some of the top clans had this thing where players could hire a top player for like an hour to give him hints and tips etc … for like 50bucks / hour or somethin

maybe we should do something like this ? :D

It’s not easy making a team out of the decent unclanned players floating about as many seem to want to slot straight into a div2 team and need a reality check and are generally indecisive.

You can’t really slate someone whos “decent” and wants to join a “decent” team :)

KOVACS and the d3rail made some really good points

too much teamplay in tf2 to make it into div 1/2 (easily)

yupp, thats it, to make it rly rly rly short.

Kovacs said the rest

Krakyn:

“if the top players were more vocal at times in gathers and said why someones actions were wrong/bad/noobish rather than just going “you’re shit” it would help a crap load”

I agree. If some (only some) higher skilled players were less ragey :P

Just played a pickup now, we won and it was fun, until a ‘top’ player started targeting another lower skilled player and generally making the whole team feel uncomfortable when trying to play. Why?

For that player to improve, surely:
1: He’d have to enjoy pickups and want to play more and not be put off
2: The higher skilled player could be friendly and help him out in advising what he may need to do 3: Feel part of the ‘team’ and play with more confidence and ultimately play better

I currently have the pleasure to play for an upcoming mid clan, and we have made friends with some very friendly high skilled players. These players are more than happy to merc and generally get involved with the ‘mid skilled lot’ which helps so much in creating ties with the higher teams, learning new things and ultimately bridging the ‘skill gap’.

much love…. hope this is taken well :)

Very well written, KOVACS. I totally agree on everything.

It is very hard for a new player to become a pro player by just practicing on public. Speaking for myself, I know that feeling all to well, probably better than anyone with my massive total playtime (1000 hours as solly). I would really like to become one of the best soldiers around and are prepared to work hard for it, but there is a limit to how much you can learn from public.
Mostly too much public play makes me underestimate my opponents, since I tend to expect everyone I meet to be a noob then..
To play together with a good team really feels much more rewarding.

On the other hand I think it is a bit pathetic to call out “pick me, pick me !!” to some top team begging them to accept you. Sure it might be nice to get the feeling that you are a bit famous belonging to some top team, but that is not the reason I play at least.
I would rather play together with some other good, hard working, players to fight our way up in the rankings and improve ourselves (Like Vale/Druidz did).
So my idea is that all clanless good players that want to belong to a div1/div 2 team form one or several new clans and fight their way up.

“Fame” is not something that should be given to you, it should be earned.