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An idea about the gap in skill level
Created 6th November 2008 @ 01:38
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Ok I don’t really post on these forums just browse most of the time but recently I’ve seen alot of posts about there being a big gap in skill levels. This is the same in any fps I’ve played so it’s no different in tf2 to tfc to cs etc.
The only way this is going to change is if lower skilled clans play higher skilled clans and yes I understand lower clans don’t want to get their arses handed to them for an hour every night 5 nights a week.
The solution that I can see to this is if clans such and ubersexuals cc tcm 4k etc (div1 teams basically) picked a lower skilled team to play say twice a week on a regular basis. Play each other on the lower clans best maps and then after the map have the div1 team run through things with the lower skilled clan on what they think was going wrong where to put things right, wouldn’t have to be the whole clan helping them maybe just people like the callers.
There are alot of helpfull people in clans that I’m sure wouldn’t mind to spend 20 mins going through a map with lower skilled clans I know personally people like byte,dunc,abom always give tips and good feedback if they are asked and don’t mind helping out.
I think it would be a good way to get the general skill level up and if you play a high clan on a regular basis and I know from my point of view get to know them a bit ingame you don’t actually mind getting rolled.
Food for thought for everyone complaining.
good post, closing the other thread was kinda annoying as people were saying things that needed saying.
I know the pros hate the average players that “invade” the pickup chan but there’s less and less clueless fools, basic competence in 6v6 is becoming more common doesn’t mean many will emerge as top class but I really can’t see it doing anything but increasing the competitive participation. The level has to improve from the bottom levels first imo.
A better matchmod with better feedback can give people better performance feedback – just points is oversimplified kills/caps/kills on the medic etc should be displayed as well as maybe accuracy at the end.
People need to take responsibility for their own development of course – there’s not much you can do about that except attract the right sorts of characters – aye the “cartoonish” exterior of TF2 does it no favours there.
Oggy is such a Carebears !
Hi Oggy! I fully agree with you. barely had low level when I returned to TF one month ago. I was pretty much lost in the game but realy lucky that S@W picked me up. they gave me the opportunity to play important & mid games. I don’t mind losing in pcw games. I improve at most when someone actually uncovers my weaknesses. in low games I’d probabaly get away with it =D
(uuh my first post here?)
I totally disagree with the idea that if lower teams play higher teams that will narrow the gap in skill – it wont, if anything it will demoralize the lower teams. In TF2, games are won primarily by one class – the scouts. It is the quality of the scouts (especially their teamwork) from the higher teams that produces this huge skill gap.
CL1 would mean higher teams would no longer need (for example 4k) three awesome scouts, these would then be free to join other promising teams. In the same way, but to a lesser impact, some soldiers from these higher clans would also be surplus to requirements and be free to join up and coming teams.
CL1 would also mean the reintroduction of the heavy class, a class which is quite easy to become good at (in comparison to lets say the scout class). And with one other slot becoming avaiable this, depending on the map, could be literally any other class in the game, perhaps favouring sniper, but this would change depending on which area of the map is held.
It would be a bold move by the ETF2L to make CL1; after taking two whole seasons to figure out DL1 is better I really cant see it happening even though the game is clearly more balanced when classes are played singular (highlander being an example)
I agree with Itchy here.
If lower teams play against top teams they will not get better, they will just get depressed..
A better idea could be if the top teams helped the worse teams getting better, for example having the better team as spectators and on the same vent when the worse team is playing against some other team.
The better team could then instruct the bad team of what they could do better and what they need to improve upon.
I think the CL1 is very interesting idea by the way. I think one should try it sometime and see if it is fun :-).
I do agree with itchy too an extent. Being in a noob clan myself when we face people far superior to ourselves we rarely learn any thing. Once the gap is too wide that you lose the centre point in seconds and by the time you respawn are defending the final cp is becomes a bit pointless and demoralising for 30 mins.
What helped me the most was watching stv, and how top clans react in different situations, attack and defence, push, hold, positioning etc.
I haven’t listened to a cast yet, but having beta and arx calling top matches and throwing in comments about clever tactics etc would be a great help.
A short reply only but the first step would be to make div1 clans upload their STV demos from every div1 match =). Watching demos can give you an awesome insight on how the better teams do it. Without demoralizing your whole team :)
Top clans are always teaching others anyway every time they play, you just have to watch the demos/stv no need to make extra work advising people etc – some suggest a cup competition where you mix the teams and div 3/4/5 players mix with div1/2… but you get an approximation to this already with mixes and pugs.
Are there too few really good players or is it closer to the truth to say good players are not prepared to coexist with average ones in a clan? The tendency is to gravitate together, even if it means warming the bench. Partly human nature, partly that it’s a game that makes it hard to excel in a weak team. Unlike most shooters to date, where you can still play a blinder and be respected even when your team gets hammered.
thing is just watching how the div1 players play DOESNT mean that all of a sudden the lower divisions will be at that leve, in order to become better you have to be commited to your class(es) Practice ALOT in differernt circumstances or get 1v1s to become a better dueler which will help you if your cornered by another class, Formulate strategies and master them and also Have good enough comms to relay enemy positions so your emdic doesnt og around the corner to find a scattergun shell in his face. But thats my opinions for a small comment so this can be replied in further detail
All im saying is you cant get better from watchin 1 game or alot and think: ”hay i can do that!”
Ofc you need the aim and ability to maneuver your chosen class as needed, which doesn’t appear by watching demos. But they do contain some neat tricks and maybe some teamplaytips if you have the stamina to analyze em a bit :)
yeah this is a good idea i wouldnt mind being helped out by a good clan but i dont think some clans would have to time for things like this as alot of them have to do training and stuff daily this wouldnt benifit the good clans only the less skilled ones but id certainly be up for getting a soldier lesson off a pro …
<3 etf2l
Many clans and people might not like the idea to teach some worse clans/players and they should not have to, of course.
However, it would be very nice if at least some good clans and/or players could help the lower skilled players/clans once in a while.
Speaking for myself, I would find it interesting to help newer players to play better. I like teaching (have been teaching a lot of mathematics at the university).
CL1 would kill the game and the community itchi , are you under drugs or something? i dont see myself playing without masiina bybben or abom just because CL1 is better for the game , a clan is not only about playing clanwars , it’s about playing with people than you like too.
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